Exploring the Niche of Interior Photography with Natalia Robert | Photographers Create Podcast

Natalia Robert shares her journey into interior photography and the differences between shooting for real estate listings and interior designers. She emphasizes the importance of building relationships with interior designers and capturing specific moments that evoke a feeling. Natalia provides tips and tricks for working with interiors, including using a tripod, straightening verticals, and mastering masking in Photoshop. She also discusses her platform, The Grove, which provides resources, courses, and a supportive community for women in the interior photography industry.

Bio

Natalia Robert is an interior photographer in Southern California and founder of The Grove. Natalia serves Interior Designers by telling the visual story of their projects. Her photos have been seen on Elle Decor, Wall Street Journal, Sunset, San Diego Magazine, and San Diego Home/Garden Lifestyle. In 2019, Natalia founded The Grove with the mission to increase representation of women in architectural and interior photography through community support, education, and opportunities.

When she's not shooting, speaking, or mentoring, Natalia can be found relaxing with her fur baby Daisy, taking day trips to anywhere within a few hours' drive, or spending time with friends and family.

Takeaways

Interior photography is a niche within the photography industry that is often overlooked but offers unique opportunities to blend design and architecture with photography.

Working with interior designers requires building relationships and understanding their vision for the space.

Tips for interior photography include using a tripod, straightening verticals, and mastering masking in Photoshop.

The Grove is a platform that provides resources, courses, and a supportive community for women in the interior photography industry.

Links:    

https://www.wearegrovestrong.com/

https://www.instagram.com/wearegrovestrong

Host Alison Hatch

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

03:11 Exploring the Niche of Interior Photography

09:20 Building Relationships with Interior Designers

16:17 Tips and Tricks for Interior Photography

Natalia Robert (00:01.006)

Natalia, it's so nice to meet you. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today and telling us all things interior photography, which is a super out of my element type of photography and niche. So I'm so glad you're on and we can talk about this today and glean all of your goodness and information onto the rest of us. So thank you so much for being here.

Natalia Robert (00:20.592)

I'm sorry.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me on, Allison. I'm really excited. I'm a fan of your podcast so far, and I'm always happy to talk interior photography. I just don't think it's talked about enough in the photography industry as its own little niche, so I'm always happy to share whatever I can.

Natalia Robert (00:42.03)

Okay, so why don't you start off by telling us how you got into photography and specifically interior photography.

Natalia Robert (00:50.512)

Sure, I'll give you the really condensed version. I've loved photography since high school. So photography club, the old camera from the parents, that whole thing. And I didn't end up studying it formally. I actually ended up going to college for architecture. So that's what my degree is. That's the career track I was on the whole time in the dark room in college doing all the photography things, but I wasn't professionally on that track.

Natalia Robert (00:55.182)

Hey.

Natalia Robert (01:19.984)

graduated, I was an architect for about four years. And then I got a really just huge life detour where I went to teach Spanish in India. It was one of these random, unexpected, never gonna happen again offers. And when I came back from that, there was, it was a recession, I landed at a job that I wasn't really happy at. And that job led me back to photography. So that's where I got led back to in...

Natalia Robert (01:34.254)

Yeah.

Natalia Robert (01:49.392)

summer of 2012, so 12 years ago, I just kind of took the leap and quit the office job I was at. And from one day to the next, I was full -time photographer. Started out like most where I would basically photograph anything that would pay. And I was like, yeah, I guess I'll do weddings and portraits. Sure, why not? Headshots?

And I did some of that. I did a fair amount of different types of portraits and I did a few weddings here or there. Incredibly stressful for me. I realized I don't enjoy it. So, and then I started this little company, put an ad on Craigslist, this little company called Airbnb was looking for photographers. And that was my first taste of photographing a space. And I look back on that first shoot now and it was horrific.

Natalia Robert (02:25.902)

lot.

Natalia Robert (02:43.952)

But it led me to realize that I could kind of blend my love of design and architecture with photography. And I kind of started experimenting more and more in how can I photograph structures and spaces. Found out real estate was not for me, it's just a completely different beast. And I started kind of honing in on working with interior designers and that was sort of my sweet spot. And...

it just kind of grew from there. So in 2016, I believe it was, was when I rebranded to really present myself as an architectural and interior photographer only. And that was one of the best things I did, because it really did kind of cut out all of the other types of work that I didn't enjoy doing. So that's in a nutshell how I got into interior photography.

Natalia Robert (03:38.286)

sense that that's what you'd be gravitating towards if you have an architecture degree that obviously you went into that field because you like buildings and things like that. It would make sense that that totally married. And then working with Airbnb when it was a startup, that was pretty crazy.

Natalia Robert (03:43.376)

Mm -hmm.

Natalia Robert (03:56.72)

Yeah, it was I mean, they were posting on Craigslist to try and find people to take photos. And because it was so early in their days, I think it was 2010, 2011. Whenever like I you know, you're still getting paid pennies, they pay very much below market rate, even today. But it was even less than but the photo team at their headquarters was really small. And so the nice thing was that

Natalia Robert (04:00.238)

Yeah.

Natalia Robert (04:26.672)

They genuinely looked at every single photo you took and they gave you critique and feedback so that you could improve. And so that was sort of, that was my bootcamp. That was really how I got a lot of feedback early on and I kind of hit the ground running. That's where I improved a lot honestly was with that early feedback from their team, because they were so vigilant on what was getting submitted.

Natalia Robert (04:32.846)

Interesting.

Natalia Robert (04:52.526)

Interesting, interesting. So yeah, I can see the difference between real estate photography and interior and working with interior design. Like real estate is just like, how big does this look? Like how can I make this bigger or more appealing somehow versus I, you know, I'm sure that, I mean, all of us photographers get into what we're doing because we have some sort of art is important to us, right? And working with an interior designer, let's like,

Natalia Robert (04:54.64)

Yeah.

Natalia Robert (05:21.486)

marrying two wonderful arts together. I'm sure that's fantastic. So why don't you tell us more about working with interiors and working with interior designs and designers and that whole world? Because I literally know nothing, nothing.

Natalia Robert (05:37.328)

Well, I'll start with just a little rundown of, like you said, there are differences between shooting for an interior designer versus shooting for a real estate listing. There's kind of some of the obvious that you can see where, you know, with real estate listings, you tend to see more of like you stand in the corner, you shoot really wide and you make the space look gigantic as much as possible. The editing is really different. You see a lot of that.

the HDR where it's automated HDR, the outside view is the same exact exposure as the inside, doesn't really look super real. But there's also big differences in things on the back end. The process is really transactional for real estate. There are photo shoots that tend to be at much lower price points. There are more immediate need, you have to be available a little bit more last minute and deliver within usually,

24 to 48 hours you're delivering the photos. They also often want things like floor plans and 3D tours and all those kind of things. And you tend to work in volume. So like photographers that do real estate, they tend to have to have a really solid workflow of outsourcing to different people so that they can shoot maybe, you know, three, four, five, eight houses a day. And...

Natalia Robert (06:51.086)

Mm -hmm.

Natalia Robert (06:59.824)

maintain income and kind of make it financially make sense. One thing I wanted to touch on is the licensing is also different. So real estate and interiors, you know, it's types of commercial photography. It's B2B. We're dealing with marketing a product or service. And so that's when you start going into the territory of licensing and usage. And for real estate, they really just need it for the sale of that house.

So it's a much shorter term. It's very limited on what they're using it for. With an interior designer, it can be a slippery slope of the designer needs it for websites, social publications, in perpetuity. And then potentially you have the contractor, the architect, the lighting company, the flooring company, all these other people that may need to license the photo. So licensing is really different.

Natalia Robert (07:29.55)

Mm -hmm.

Natalia Robert (07:57.04)

And that plays into the pricing a little bit too. So that's kind of a rundown of a little bit of the distinction between those two. Working with interior designers, it's great. It's really relationship heavy. So like if you think about interior designers, they have a project that they're working on usually for anywhere from like four months to a couple of years. They're working on this project. So it's like their baby.

Natalia Robert (07:59.886)

Interesting.

Natalia Robert (08:26.48)

And sometimes we reach out to them or they're juggling a million things and they don't need us for another six months. So the amount of times that you're photographing with them could be just once or twice a year, especially if it's kind of a local designer, just usually like a one woman kind of operation.

but it's very relationship heavy. They want to know that the photographer they're working with is somebody that they can trust, somebody that can really show off their project well, and ideally somebody they can work with regularly for a long time. So they're looking for that relationship. And then in return, when we find a client that we work well with, there's a little bit of that client loyalty. And you know that if you just keep things going well,

Natalia Robert (09:19.566)

Mm -hmm.

Natalia Robert (09:20.24)

That's your client, like you are photographing their projects. Designers often will want consistency in the look of their photos, because if you think about their website, it's a lot better if all the photos feel cohesive. Even if the projects look different. If you have different photographers shooting each project, suddenly it feels really choppy and it ends up feeling a little bit less professional. So.

Natalia Robert (09:36.174)

Mm -hmm.

Natalia Robert (09:47.504)

the relationship building is really what takes the most time. It's not a, I'm gonna do interior photos and next week I have a photo shoot booked. It's gonna take a good amount of just connecting with designers and really standing out and building that trust. So getting started is a little slow usually, but it's worth it.

Natalia Robert (10:11.054)

Yeah, yeah, I could see that. Yeah, breaking in and feels like you kind of have to get in with the in group might be a little challenging. But yeah, I'm sure I'm sure. But that's awesome. Once you have the client, you've got the client and you've got continual work from them. That's that's really cool because like other.

Natalia Robert (10:19.952)

It can be.

Natalia Robert (10:33.806)

Weddings especially is like one client and you're done and you gotta go find another one. So that's a definite plus for working with interior designers. So what, what do you love about working with interiors? What helps you stay creative when working with interiors? I know that, you know, you can't mess with their work. I'm sure you're like, this is, this is their work. And I can't be like, you know, that doesn't look really good right there. Can we just move things around?

Like how do you keep things fresh for yourself and creative for yourself and like rewarding for you because not getting a rep.

Natalia Robert (11:14.832)

I mean, I kind of love the challenge of when there is a tough space, you know, there's this sort of dark windowless hall bathroom that's a little bit nondescript and the designer's like, I just don't have much for a portfolio. I just need good images of something to get started. A lot of times with those kind of projects, I love the challenge. So.

part, that's a big part of it, is really having the eye for it. So if you start, you know, I have a little bit of an edge when I started, because I have the design kind of mentality already from my background. But even if you flip through magazines, you start to kind of get a feel for those moments in a space that are worth capturing, because unlike real estate, with design, you're not trying to.

that get full coverage of a space. You're not trying to show off everything and all the features. You're being really specific about certain moments and certain spots in the design that are really making you feel something. It's gonna evoke a feeling. And so it takes a little practice. And there are certain types of shots that I always like to suggest to people like.

you know, for example, a straight on like a one point perspective of a wall, if you have a feature wall. So there are things you can look for when you're sort of at a loss. But yeah, it's a little bit of the challenge. It's where are those moments? And a lot of times that will also come from talking with the designer. It's very collaborative. So it's extremely rare that I will go to a photo shoot and I haven't seen cell phone shots.

progress shots from during the project phases or had any kind of input from the designer on like the key features or you know, we took out this one wall so I want to make sure we get a view of that opened up. So a lot of times the designer they know this project inside out, they will come with ideas or desires of what they want. And then our job is to make sure that it translates to an image. So.

Natalia Robert (13:33.68)

you mentioned we can't really touch the design much, but we do a lot of tethering. So we're doing a lot of tethering so we can see the live view through the camera on an iPad or computer in the moment. And a big reason for doing that is because we're standing there with the designer next to us and we're looking at it and I can say, you know what?

Natalia Robert (13:36.878)

Right.

Natalia Robert (13:59.12)

this is really heavy in the foreground. Why don't we move that chair over to the left and kind of like lessen that? Because our clients know it looks different through the camera than when you look at it in real life. So it's our job to say, gorgeous, let's set up a shot and see how it looks with the camera. And then we can make little tweaks to make sure that it looks through the camera the way that it feels in person.

Natalia Robert (14:16.942)

Mm -hmm.

Natalia Robert (14:26.158)

Interesting.

Natalia Robert (14:27.024)

So it's, I don't know if that answered your question, but.

Natalia Robert (14:29.518)

It does, it absolutely does. That's a very constrained in a way, but like you said, in the beginning, it's very collaborative working with your designer. So that, yeah, that totally answers my question. So why don't you give listeners tips and tricks with working with interiors? Because I'm sure it's a totally different beast than natural light. Yeah.

Natalia Robert (14:51.024)

Yeah.

It is, it is. And one of the things that I see a lot in interior photography, especially over the last few years, ever since the pandemic, when I think a lot of photographers were looking for fresh avenues to kind of go down with different types of work, there's a lot of photographers that might have, they know somebody that's a designer or they have a friend of a friend. So they take on an interior shoot and...

they don't realize that it can be quite technical compared to other types of work. So yeah, anything that I can give to kind of help, especially photographers who have that photography base already, they know what they're doing with the camera, but they're stepping into this different type of work. The first is as much as you might resist it, give into using a tripod. It will save you a million headaches in editing later. And...

when you start to realize more of what settings you want, you are going to be using exposures that are a little bit long for handheld. You're gonna start taking multiple exposures to be able to Photoshop them together. So just get used to a tripod. It doesn't have to be fancy, but just get a tripod and get used to it and use it. The main thing with any kind of architecture or interiors is...

you want those verticals to be straight. So you don't want to shoot with the camera angled up or down, because it's just going to distort the verticals and make them kind of wonky. So the distortion and getting those verticals straight up and down, that's one of the first things that we fix in editing. And so if you can get that right in camera, which is where the tripod helps, then that saves you a lot too. And

Natalia Robert (16:42.446)

Yeah.

Natalia Robert (16:46.896)

it instantly will elevate the photo. Like those of us who are more in that niche, we look at those photos of people who are starting out with it and we cringe when we see those vertical lines that kind of veer out towards the edge at the bottom or that are like barrel distortion because it just, it sticks out like a sore thumb. It stands out very much. So keep an eye out for that. There's a grid that you can put on on the back of your camera through the LCD screen.

use it. You can also use the level that's built into the camera that helps a lot. So use all those things. And then the other big thing that I would say, actually, I'm going to do two. Before I get to the other big one. Don't be afraid to go in tighter on something. I think people have a tendency to want to photograph the entire room.

And especially when you go more to kind of high -end design, things that are in magazines. If you flip through magazines, the majority of what you see, it's not showing the whole room. It's showing a corner of it. It's showing that reading nook or the breakfast area, or it's showing like the sink by the window in the kitchen. So you're focusing more on these moments that evoke feeling.

Natalia Robert (17:57.07)

Mm -hmm.

Natalia Robert (18:13.04)

So don't be afraid to go in tighter. That's gonna tell more of a story than if you just shoot wide and get the whole room in a picture.

And now the last one. A lot of photographers struggle with getting used to masking in Photoshop. And if that's something that you're not familiar or comfortable with yet, I would definitely hop on Google, go to YouTube, wherever. They can go to the Grove site and kind of learn, but there's communities, there are sites, Google, YouTube, wherever.

learn about masking in Photoshop. And what that does is when you start taking different exposures of one photo, it's the way that you even out the light. So you don't want, even if you leave some bright light through a window, you don't want the fuzziness and the glare and the huge, like overpowering white light that comes through it. So you...

Natalia Robert (19:19.054)

Mm -hmm.

Natalia Robert (19:20.176)

Those are the types of things that you start evening out with all these different exposures that you then blend together by hand with masking. So essentially you're gonna take all these different exposures, they go into Photoshop. Masking lets you put like a screen over each layer and then you can use the brush to literally just like brush on the parts that you want to show through. And that's the way that you can hand blend.

Natalia Robert (19:28.59)

Wow.

Natalia Robert (19:45.486)

Yeah.

Natalia Robert (19:49.616)

images and that's a big big part of our editing process. It's pretty editing heavy and that's usually the most time -consuming part is really blending those images together. So if you can just get familiar with the process of masking and with that tool in Photoshop, you'll have a step up once you do start taking multiple exposures. You'll be so much more comfortable kind of elevating it to that.

to that level where you're evening out the light naturally.

Natalia Robert (20:21.55)

Interesting. So I assume you're using a 50 millimeter if you're trying to have everything be straight and normal so you don't get distortion. Like what type of what lens are you using?

Natalia Robert (20:33.008)

So I actually use a 16 to 35 because I love the zoom ability, but I typically am closer to like the 20 to 30 millimeter range when I use it. And then when I do details or vignettes, I put on my 50. So I rarely am using that zoom lens at 16 just because it does get a lot of distortion. So that's usually like.

Natalia Robert (20:36.878)

Oh, interesting. Okay.

Natalia Robert (20:46.318)

Okay.

Natalia Robert (20:51.31)

Okay. Okay.

Natalia Robert (20:59.438)

Yeah.

Natalia Robert (21:00.688)

those little hall bathrooms where you kind of don't have a choice. And then you're like, I just gotta, I just gotta fix it later. I'll fix when I can. Yeah.

Natalia Robert (21:03.278)

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so interesting. So yeah, I know how to mask. I know how to put someone else's head on, you know, squat heads. That's it. Like, I'm sure it is. Yours sounds much more complicated. Taking multiple exposures of the same thing and then layering them all together and knowing where to remove and where to add.

Natalia Robert (21:15.728)

Yeah, it's the same concept. It's the same thing.

Natalia Robert (21:28.144)

You

Natalia Robert (21:32.334)

you know, to blend it all, that's gotta take some serious skill.

Natalia Robert (21:36.432)

Well, I mean, I see it as kind of putting a puzzle together. Like when I'm shooting, I'm looking at what's in the frame and I'm thinking of like, what are the pieces that I need? So I have this really dark area here. So let me get some bright exposures that I can use for that. I have a really bright area here by the window. Let me make sure I get a few darker exposures. So I'm sort of collecting all the pieces that I need. And then when it comes to my editing, that's when I have to...

do my calling and I have to look through and be like, okay, that one's gonna be for the window, that one's gonna be for the window frame, that one's gonna be for that chair where it had the big reflection on it, that one's where I blocked out that glare spot, that's where I had that dark corner. So it gets easier with time, but you're kind of putting this little puzzle pieces together. So it's kind of like if you have a group photo and you're like, okay, I have to replace that head there.

Natalia Robert (22:33.07)

Yeah.

Natalia Robert (22:33.136)

and I had to replace that arm there that looks weird. And then that foot is sticking out. It's very much the same thing, but with a room.

Natalia Robert (22:35.63)

Yeah.

Natalia Robert (22:43.31)

Yeah, Utah, it sounds very intricate and detailed, which makes sense if you were an architect before that this is your jam. And I, it's amazing. I think it's fantastic. You talked about like where you could go to learn how to do some of this stuff. You talked about the growth. Why don't you tell us more about the growth?

Natalia Robert (23:00.816)

Yeah, absolutely. So 2016 was when I rebranded to make myself specifically for architecture and interiors. And I started looking online and being like, where are some courses, some resources, what are people saying? And I legitimately could not find a lot of information on interior photography. I found a lot on real estate and I found some on exterior desk photos.

and it was all a bunch of guys that were talking about this. And I was like, there have to be other women doing this. And there have to be people that are shooting for interior designers. It seemed like its own little weird niche, this strange little specialty. And I still, you know, over the next few years, I wasn't seeing a lot of stuff come up. I would take online course here or there when it felt like it related. And so in 2019,

I decided to put some stuff out there from what I had learned just to start getting information out there for interiors, kind of saving other people the headache. And...

When I first had the idea, I didn't initially intend to focus on helping out other women in the industry, but it made sense because before I did that, I started a Facebook group for female interior and architectural photographers. And that was literally just me desperately trying to find other women who do this kind of work. And then eventually I realized that is who the Grove is speaking to. So the Grove started as me putting together a digital course,

Natalia Robert (24:31.534)

Yeah.

Natalia Robert (24:41.328)

And I think there was like one or two handouts that were downloadables. And today it's grown quite a bit. So we have about 700 women in our Facebook group, which is kind of the heart and soul of the Grove. And we have three online courses and we have contract templates, email templates, presets, and we have a small team of mentors, which are different women in the industry.

who can speak expertly to different parts of your business. What else do we have? So we started the membership, which kind of made the Facebook group official. And then beyond that, last year we started doing monthly webinars. And so the upper tier of membership gives you access to all the recordings and the webinars are with experts in all these adjacent industries.

So that's become a big resource and we have a bunch of free resources on the site too. We have what we call field notes, which is basically just a library of articles about all types of different things relating to this type of work or being a photographer in general. But a lot of it really caters to specifically shooting interiors and architecture. And I made it a point to really specifically connect with and spotlight women in the industry because...

I had been seeing statistics that were terrible. It makes sense that I wasn't finding them. Things like, let me see if I can remember these, because I did not look these up before our talk. But I think it was something like 85 % of photography students are female, but only 15 % of those end up actually having a professional photography business. So it goes from 85 %...

Natalia Robert (26:18.19)

That's okay.

Natalia Robert (26:35.312)

being students to 15 % actually having an actual business doing it. And then, gosh, there were some staggering statistics about the low percentages of women that get like covers on publications. Even by female editors, like women are just not selected as often. So it really led me to want to give women more support early on, first of all, so that they could...

Natalia Robert (26:41.646)

crazy.

Natalia Robert (26:50.574)

Mm -hmm.

Natalia Robert (27:04.72)

build a business a little bit more confidently and feel like they can actually do it and like they have access to information. And I wanted to put a spotlight on women, you know, give them a platform, give them microphone over to them so that they can show people that they know what they're doing. Cause a lot of times we know what we're doing sometimes better than the guys and we just don't say it. We are not as overconfident as the men tend to be.

Natalia Robert (27:18.542)

Yeah.

Natalia Robert (27:26.094)

Woo!

Natalia Robert (27:32.91)

Yeah, yeah.

Natalia Robert (27:33.584)

So I wanted to really give support to the women so that they can get some attention and some credit too. So our Facebook group is probably what I'm proudest of because it's just this really, it's a really safe space and the women there have formed friendships. We were doing some in -person events for a while. Those will come back soon, I'm sure. But a lot of like casual gatherings where they actually become friends and stay in touch and I get photos from some of them.

Natalia Robert (27:40.366)

Mm -hmm.

Natalia Robert (28:03.216)

When they get together, they'd send me a picture. It's just kind of like letting me know that they're hanging out. And a lot of really open conversation about prices and licensing and what do you do when this happens and oh my God, my client did this or said this, what do you guys do? So it's been a really huge resource for a lot of women in the industry. So it's...

Natalia Robert (28:25.07)

So it sounds like an absolute must if you're wanting to get into working with architecture interior. Like it's, cause you're right. I don't know many who do it. And I, the resource, like you hear all other kinds of resources for photographers, but not for this. So this sounds like the place to go if you're wanting to get started. It will like give you everything you need to know to learn and then have the support along the way while you're.

Natalia Robert (28:28.72)

Yes.

Natalia Robert (28:53.326)

building your business. That's fantastic. I love it.

Natalia Robert (28:54.8)

For sure. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And I mean, even now, several years in, there still aren't a ton of resources. Like there are, you know, YouTube videos and stuff. And you can go independently, like to each photographer. Like if there's a photographer that you follow that does interior work, a lot of photographers are now opening up to offering mentorship, which I think is great. But...

as far as like a community or like a central hub for information on this type of work, there still really isn't much out there. So, and especially if you are looking for something that is women focused, because, I mean, let's face it, a lot of those online forums are harsh and they're just kind of rough to actually speak up in and ask questions. So we pride ourselves on being very different from a lot of those groups.

Natalia Robert (29:52.398)

That is so cool. Well, I will link all the information in the show notes. If you were interested in that listeners and Natalia, this was so great. Is there anything else you wanted to say or tell us about before you go? Tell people about your website, your Instagram, where they can find you. I will also link all this information in the show notes before we go.

Natalia Robert (30:13.744)

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my door is always open. I'm always happy to help people guide them in a direction that's a good fit for them. We are Grove Strong. That's our website. That's our social handles. That's where you can find information. At the very least, I encourage people to follow us on Instagram. Anything that happens, we share it on there. I'm on there usually daily, like talking to people. You can get on our newsletter, but...

We are Grove Strong. That's the website and the social handles and you can find us there.

Natalia Robert (30:48.942)

Well thank you so much again for coming on. This was such a wealth of information that I had no idea about before. So thank you so much. I appreciate it, Natalia.

Natalia Robert (30:53.2)

I'm sorry.

Natalia Robert (30:58.256)

You're so welcome. Thanks for having me on. I'm always happy to share.

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In this episode, Anja shares her experience and insights on personal projects, specifically focusing on 365 projects. She discusses the benefits of personal projects, how she got into them, and her favorite projects. Anja emphasizes the importance of starting small and gradually building up to a 365 project. She also provides tips on staying organized, keeping photos fresh and creative, and post-processing in a 365 project. Anja concludes by sharing resources for those interested in starting their own personal projects.

Anja is a photographer and filmmaker for families and small businesses based in Worthing, UK.

Anja’s main goal with all her work is to instil confidence in her clients: in families by showing up as their real selves in photos that will help children grow up knowing where they belong. And in small businesses to show up authentically to their audience to build real connections with those they want to serve.

One of Anja’s favourite way to hone her creative skills is through personal projects. For years, she’s been trying and improving her techniques and skills in a variety of ways so she can implement them in her professional work. Her favourite and longest-standing creative outlet is a Project 365 which she’s been doing for over 4 years now.

Her work has been exhibited and awarded nationally and internationally and she’s held online classes in various capacities to share her skills and expertise.

My website: https://www.anjapoehlmann.com/

365 course (hosted and recorded for DFP Education): DFP education 365 course (affiliate link)

IG: https://www.instagram.com/by_anjap/

Takeaways

Personal projects allow photographers to explore ideas, test and play, and learn new techniques that can be applied to client work.

Starting with smaller projects can be a good segue into a 365 project, allowing photographers to build confidence and develop a routine.

Personal projects are an opportunity to capture and document the little moments in life that often go unnoticed.

Staying organized and having a system in place is crucial for managing a 365 project and ensuring that photos are easily accessible and editable.

It's important to use the equipment and process that works best for you, whether it's shooting with a phone, film, or digital camera, and finding a post-processing workflow that suits your style and preferences.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Scheduling Collaboration

00:38 Getting into Personal Projects

02:55 Starting a 365 Project

06:41 Taking Baby Steps into a 365 Project

07:37 Starting Small and Building Confidence

09:29 Giving Yourself Grace in Personal Projects

10:37 Continuing a 365 Project

11:14 The Power of Photos and Videos

12:10 The Importance of Personal Projects

13:09 Filling the Gap in Photos

15:31 Keeping Photos Fresh and Creative

16:30 Finding New Angles and Techniques

24:48 Staying Organized in a 365 Project

29:13 Using the Equipment and Process That Works for You

32:04 Resources for 365 Projects

35:11 Conclusion and Where to Find Anja

Anja (00:02.219)

Hi Anya, I'm so glad you're here with us today on the Photographers Create Podcast. How are you?

Anja (00:08.694)

I'm good, thanks for having me Alison.

Anja (00:10.55)

I'm good. So you're coming from the UK, you're at night, I'm in the morning. So this is a good scheduling collaboration we've done that's worked for both of us. Today you're going to be talking to us about personal projects, which I'm excited about. I love personal projects, but for each person it's very personal. That's why it's a personal project. So you're known for doing 365s and these longer.

stents of personal projects, why don't you tell us about how you got into personal projects, what the benefits for you and like some of your favorites.

Anja (00:47.902)

So I do a variety of personal projects, but most of them kind of they last for a while. Well, one of my actually I would say my favorite is my 365. I'm in year five now and I think I've missed maybe like five or tops ten days over the whole time. So I'm quite proud of myself. I'm very good at staying focused on something. I think that's just how my personality works.

Anja (01:08.907)

Yes.

Anja (01:15.73)

But I really, really love personal projects because they let me explore ideas, they let me test and play and I can then use what I learn in my client work. So I'm a documentary family photographer and personal brand photographer. So I photograph people for a living and I also have, so I also do video and I come from the video world. So I have personal projects. Currently that one is sleeping, but I have one that is

geared towards video as well. And I just really like being able to kind of play without having to prove anything to anyone or having to...

Anja (01:58.778)

That's a word. Having to kind of give something to someone that they're expecting because it's just for me. And it's what I really, really like about personal projects is I don't have to share them if I'm not confident with it or if it's not something I need to have out there. They're just for me. And I think that's what photographers or creatives sometimes forget that you don't have to share everything that you do. Like that's what personal projects are there for you.

I do like sharing the things that I do because I'm quite proud of them, even if they're not amazing, but they're good for me because they teach me something. But yeah, they just let me play and let me just experiment and kind of go get creative. And then I can use what I learn when I actually work with people who pay me.

Anja (02:45.846)

Yeah, so what got you into the beginning of your five year 365 project? Like what spurred you to actually do that? Cause that's a big commitment.

Anja (02:55.362)

Um, so I've seen 365 absolutely ages ago. So I'm probably going to age myself here, but I come from the days of Flickr. Um, so I think I started my Flickr account in 2006 or something. And I was kind of part of some communities and people were talking about taking photos every day and I was like, I can't do that. That's too much. Um, so, but I always had in the back of my head, head that I wanted to do something like this. Um, and.

A few years later I found this app called One Second Every Day. I don't know if you know it, if other people know it. It's a video app. Yeah, it's still around. So, they're amazing. So basically you record a second video every single day with your phone and then you can mash it up into a video and it just happens with an app. So you don't have to do anything. And that kind of, I feel like that was my segue. I did that in maybe 2013 or something for a summer. And then I did it again in like 2016, 17, something like that.

Anja (03:32.264)

Oh it is? They're so cool! Yeah.

Anja (03:52.602)

for a whole year. So I've got a video of a whole year of my life. That's like 15 minutes long. And I watch it and like, oh yeah, I remember this. I remember what I did. And it's just the power that photos and videos can have, like reminding us of things that didn't just happen in that second that you documented, but what happened around, what happened on that day or in that week, people you met with, the things you saw or what you experienced.

And so the 365 was constantly still in my head, like I would like to do it, but I don't think I can. And I started with like smaller version projects. So I started, at one point I did a 100 mornings. I literally, I call my projects, the names of my projects are incredibly literal. So I had one called, oh, I'm so sorry. My mom just called. I started with 100 mornings project. So.

Anja (04:41.326)

It's okay.

Anja (04:50.09)

Every morning when I was at that point, I was unemployed every morning when I went to work, I photographed something on my way to work and because I, I come from the video world, so everything is in like landscape mode, and I kept forgetting to turn my camera into portrait mode. So my challenge for this project was to take a photo in the morning and it has to be portrait mode. So I did that for 100 days and I kind of I have like love.

I didn't really give myself any other specifications apart from it had to be until 11 a.m. and it had to be portrait mode. So it was the first bit and then I did a year-long project where I took photos of strangers for a whole year once a week, which was really terrifying and I usually did it on a Sunday afternoon because I'm like, I don't want to do it, I want to talk to strangers. And then I did another one which was another year long and I did it with other people. We had a theme every month. I gave the themes, I literally let the project.

Anja (05:32.383)

Yeah

Anja (05:43.862)

everything I gave a month and we went out and took a photo for that month for the theme. So I kind of like very slowly walked into that thing of first of all like photographing daily and then another one like photographing for a whole like year and kind of have a project that spans over a whole year. And then at some point I was like I'm just going to do this now. So that was on my birthday in 2019 so my birthday is in November. And one of the things that I didn't want to do was photograph like start this project in January because

January is already so full of expectation and pressure to do everything better than the last year. We live healthier, we move more, and we see our friends more often. We don't actually have time or energy for all of that. So I didn't want to do this in January when everything was already so new and we had this big expectation. So I started in November, which also meant I started in the really dark time, like kind of at the beginning of the dark time of the year. So...

Anja (06:41.108)

Yeah.

Anja (06:42.17)

I did the really hard bit first and then when it goes into summer it's a lot easier to photoshop every day because you have more light to play with.

Anja (06:51.882)

So it was like this baby steps into 365 because it It that idea I'm going to take a picture every single day for 365 days feels big and I've known people who like Take pictures of themselves free like or self-portrait for years like going over that But to start with like the one second video for a month thing, which is so much fun If anybody's ever seen those are really fun

Feels like a great segue. Like, if you want, like you have this goal to do a 365, but you feel intimidated by it, try doing something smaller. Do you recommend that for people? Is what it kind of, like that's what you did. Do you recommend that or do you think just go for it? There's really no point in doing all this other stuff before.

Anja (07:37.882)

I think it really depends on what kind of personality you are. A lot of people start the 365 and they stop two weeks in Which means it's too much and they put too much pressure on themselves. So I do think That starting smaller is a really good segue Like that I mean the one second every day is amazing because it also everything's on the phone So you don't actually think about like oh I have to take my big camera and have to make it nice No, you just take any video so that kind of takes the pressure of the

perfection of the image or the video. But also kind of just reducing the time that you want to do a project of really helps you get into that. It's not the whole year. It's like you could do it for a week or a month or a lot of people do over summer like a hundred days of summer and usually because kids are home and you have more time with the kids. So if that works, I think that's a good idea. But I do think if you feel like you're someone

who can't stick to a whole year right off the bat, start smaller and just see how it goes. And if you feel like, okay, I'm going to do it for a week and it still works, I'd do it for a month and it's still worth it, then just keep going. But also if you, if you miss a day, if you say, okay, I'm going to do a daily project for a certain amount of time, if you miss a day, don't just throw it away. Like don't just say like, oh, I missed a day now. That's just, it's over now. It's not over. Like obviously it's...

It's a shame if you miss a day, but you can either sort of cheat, take another photo the next day that kind of represents a similar thing that you did the day before. We just accept the gap or you just kind of get on with it and figure out how to not miss it. Miss another day. And also, it's I mean, if it's a personal project, it's your project. You make the rules and missing a day. It shouldn't mean that the project is has failed.

And I think a lot of people put a lot of pressure on it. Like I have to do it every day. I miss a day, it's already done. I can't do it again until next January, which is like a long time. If you start in January and you skip a day on January 12th.

Anja (09:43.81)

I agree when it comes to personal projects you have to give yourself a lot of grace and wiggle room that that's not this confinement I mean sometimes confinement can bring creativity But if the confinement is making you miserable then you need to change something because a personal project is supposed to be Uplifting and good for you and help you, you know stretch a bit, but also enjoy the process But I've heard of people with 365

who will take seven pictures in a day and consider that still 365 like at the end of the week or do a couple and like at a time like do two or three and consider that their three days. And I think whatever works for you with that sort of massive project is 100% acceptable. Whether you miss a day or can, you know, combine some days. I think the fact that you're even doing it, you should pat yourself on the back cause that's a big deal. So what?

You've continued this for so many years. Like, what is this doing for you? Why are you continually doing it for yourself?

Anja (10:45.006)

So the first year I did it, I kind of gave myself some milestones. I'm like, yes, I managed to do 30 days, I managed to do 50 days, and then I managed six months and the whole year and whatever it was. I literally wrote out when I have milestones and I'm just like, yes, this is amazing. And at the beginning, after 50 days and 100 days and 183 days, which is halfway, I made slideshows and like, I really like seeing this and kind of just seeing my

my year or my life in front of me kind of developing over time, one photo at a time, just really, it made me really happy and it gave me something because, like I said before, seeing photos or videos of your life really reminds you of all of the things that you do. We keep forgetting the little moments in life and when you have photos of those really, really boring, subtle things, like things that you do every day.

It really kind of brings home like my life is really good. My life is amazing. And it's not because I fly to like fly around the world every other day or every other week, but because what I built here is really good and it's very, I'm content with it. I'm happy with it. Obviously if you go through tough times, those purchase will say something different to you, but if you get out of those tough times, you can look back at this, I over, I overcame this. So for me, it's this reflection.

work that I can do through this. So now I don't do slideshows every 50 days or 100 days, I do a slideshow at the end of the year. So I've got four slideshows now that are each like three to four minutes long and they're just like really just relatively quickly those photos of the year and I print my photos. So actually I got them out of the shelf. So obviously your listeners can't see it but they're like, they're thick. And I've got four of those now.

So I print them with blurbs so they don't have to be really expensive. But there's literally one photo per day on a page and I can flick through it and it's, I literally sometimes my partner asks me about something that we did and like, oh, I remember there was in this year, so I go into my book and literally, oh yeah, we did that day. And because it has a date and it reminds me of things that we've done and it's just a nice recollection of my life. And I think it kind of comes back to being the third of three children.

Anja (13:09.794)

So I'm the least photographed one, because once we kind of got out of the, the toneless age, 34 years, my parents kind of got not as excited about photographing us anymore. So there's a lot more photos of my big brother, my big sister. So I, there's a big gap in my life in photos, because then I also, when I grew up, kind of like, oh, don't photograph me, I'm ugly, I don't want to be in photos, because I learned that from my mom, like put the hand in front and stuff. So there's a big gap in photos of my life.

Anja (13:34.424)

Mm-hmm.

Anja (13:37.378)

And I feel like I'm catching up with this now by doing it almost excessively. But it's nice because it's for me. And like nobody's asking me to do this. And after the first year I asked my partner, do you think I should continue? He's like, yeah, hell yeah, of course. And like the second year again, like, should I continue? I don't know, should I take a break? And it just naturally happened that I kept photographing. So my camera is always near me. This is always closed, batteries always charged. There's always a memory card in it.

Anja (13:43.07)

Hahaha!

Anja (14:05.302)

And I can always go, when I go for a walk, I have a little bag and I just throw my camera in. So it's not my big camera that I photograph my clients with. It's another camera, it's actually quite battered. It had a bath in the sea water, which is not ideal for camera equipment, as you can imagine. It's a bit laggy, it's a bit, not everything works 100% anymore, but it works enough for me to take good photos. And if you look at my photos on my Instagram feed, you can't tell that this is done with a 4.2 camera.

Anja (14:20.005)

No.

Anja (14:34.09)

or some of them are taken with a camera that's like 12 years old and you can't tell because it's not about pixel peeping, it's not about the perfect photo. The photos are not that exciting either for other people, but they're exciting for me. And I feel like that keeps me going. Like just, I get a lot more aware of the little moments that I have in my life. Um, finding different angles as well, which again then helps me with my client work, making sure that I get different angles of

situation instead of just photographing everything head on. Go high, go low, drag the shutter, just kind of play with lights, play with shadow and just kind of because I had to, I live in this flat and we've been living here for over two years now so there's only so many times I can photograph a certain scene so if I want to, if I'm not going out and I want to take a photo of the day I need to find a different angle for something. So it really helps me stay creative and find new versions of.

something that's always there.

Anja (15:33.746)

Yeah, yeah, I was, that was the question I was gonna ask you while you were talking. I was thinking, I was like, you said these photos aren't necessarily anything special, but you love them, but they're obviously not terrible. And like, how do you not take the picture of the exact same thing all the time? Because our lives are very monotonous. Being a human and the needs we have to be able to take care of ourselves is monotony. It really is like work and food and sleep and bathing and, you know, with your kids picking them up, playing with them or

reading them a bedtime story, like those are great moments, but for years of them, you know, being able to photograph the same thing over and over again and being excited about it, I would love for you to tell us a little bit more. You're talking about using different techniques like blur and light and things like that. Like what do you do to help keep your tech, like your photos fresh for yourself? Share, share, I don't know how to do it.

Anja (16:30.567)

Well, so one thing is obviously photographing exactly the same thing that you photographed before because things around us change. You have plants in your home that grow, you have kids in your home that grow. So you change up your furniture, you change up your wall decorations, you change up photos on the walls. So things don't, for the majority of people, things don't stay the same 100% over a longer period of time. There's small things that change. So I've got...

I've got plants that grow like crazy because the flat that we live in is just beautifully bright. We have this massive window in the living room. So I have for a while, I took photos like every other month of a windowsill showing how the plants in that change, how they grow and how I changed the decoration on it. So that's something that really can spark creativity, like just seeing the same thing but seeing what's changed. Another thing, like I said, just change your angles. Go down on the ground.

figure out how to like maybe climb on a ladder and photograph down, you can include yourself in photos, use a tripod and a timer and just put yourself in a situation, a place. So you're in the photo. I really like working with shutter speeds, so it's really slow shutter and either have a camera static and just see what's moving through. Like, I mean, if you have small kids, they'd probably zoom through anyway.

most of the time. So if you just put your camera somewhere down somewhere and you have the shutter speed of half a second, you can see them running around and just kind of play with this and see what story that tells you. So for me, it's like something really quickly through a frame. It shows how fast time goes. And just kind of, if you feel like, if you try to understand what are the stories in your life and what stories would you like to tell, what stories would you like to remember, how can you visualize those and then kind

Get creative and think about how you can use your camera to take photos at it, not as literal as just taking a portrait of someone or taking a photo of someone sitting somewhere. What kind of things can you highlight? What kind of things can you exclude from the image just by changing your angle or changing your own position? Do you have focal length that you never use? I shoot very wide, I shoot between 24 and 35 millimeter most of the time.

Anja (18:53.006)

So if I wanted to challenge myself, I put an 85 millimeter on my camera and I'm really out of my comfort zone at home with this. So I do have those for events, but I don't use the uses for portraits or anything because I feel like I'm too removed from the situation. But you can really play with that because you can create beautiful bokeh that you can't really do with a wide angle lens and just kind of see what you can do with a really shallow depth of field or really removing yourself from a situation and kind of.

be very much more of an observer rather than being in the scene. And yeah, just kind of use your kit in a way that you never did. Try flash if you never use flash. How can you play with flash and completely manipulate a situation, a scene with a very different lighting situation? Just these things. And obviously not all of this will work for everyone, but I think most photographers are creative naturally.

And we want to play and we want to try. And if we keep doing the same thing over and over, we get bored at some point. So in order to not get bored, we need to figure out, okay, what kind of tool do I have in my back that I never use? What can I do with that? And how can I use it to my advantage to try something new? Because you never know, this might spark something for another session that you have in the future, because you're like, Oh, actually I never do this for my client, but the photo that I got from this test looks really nice. I would like to recreate something like this for my clients. And then you can kind of take this.

Anja (19:52.759)

Mm-hmm.

Anja (20:17.066)

and use it in your paid work.

Anja (20:20.462)

That was a lot of good tips. I hadn't thought of like most of those. As I tried doing a 365, I quit pretty quickly because I was like, I don't know how to do this. Something else that was challenging for me when I tried a 365, when I was shooting digitally was the idea of post-processing that much. Do you have any tips for that? Do you like batch? Do you?

not do post-processing? Do you like try to shoot, you know, JPEG in camera so you don't have to? You have a little bit more color with it or whatever. Like what does your post-processing look like?

Anja (20:57.09)

So I should roll everything I do my personal work and my client work and at the beginning So when I started my 365 I edited my photos every night in the evening Sometimes I kind of had two or three days But at this point now, I basically have reminded my phone for Sunday night to edit my 365 So Sunday night, there's nothing happening. I'm not missing anything. The sun's down. Don't want to go outside anymore So I can sit on my computer for half an hour. I just import all the photos

The thing is also because I photographed with a separate camera, I don't have to figure out which camera did I take these photos with, where's the memory card for this. It's just one camera. Most of the time it's just one camera. Um, so I know where the photos are, I just import them on my computer in Lightroom, just really quickly go through a quick coloring process. So I try to, if I have five photos of the same thing, I just choose one. I don't overthink it because it's a personal moment, like...

I mean, I don't have to deliver them to anybody. So I just choose one. If I choose three, then I choose three. But I just try to be really, really ruthless with calling down the photos that I want. And sometimes I end up with one photo for a day, which is perfect because I then don't have to go like, okay, which photo is one for the day. But sometimes I have a hundred because I did a lot of things. I went on an event with my partner, he's a performer, and I photographed him.

in his rehearsal and doing the show is that I've got a lot of photos because I want to give them to him as well. So I then need to choose one. But I do. So I cull really quickly. I have presets. I've edited with Lightroom. I have presets that I created myself over years and years. I've been using Lightroom since it's out, which was, I don't even know how long that was, 2010 or something? 2012? It's a long time. So I've been using Lightroom since it came out. So I kind of, I'm quite proficient with it. And I created

Anja (22:43.44)

Yeah, I don't know.

Anja (22:53.698)

a preset that really works for me that gives me 80% of the way. Sometimes I have to adjust a little bit. I export it as a JPEG and then it sits in a folder. So what I really would recommend is find a process that works for you. Can you do it every day? Then do it every day. Do you think you can do it once a week? Set a time once a week where you do half an hour. Don't give yourself more than an hour because then you're just overthinking it because you don't actually have to shoot tons. Some days I really just take one or two photos and then I edit one of them.

And that's my photo of the day. So find a process that really works for you with your lifestyle. That could be early in the morning, later in the evening, on a weekend, on the weekday, when your kids are napping, when your kids in school, when everybody else hasn't gotten up yet because you're a morning person, just do it, whatever works best for you in a frequency that works for you and have a good system. So for me, it's my personal photos don't live where my business, my, my client photos live. They're on a different hard drive.

They're named by year, month, day. Um, and I have a folder for year, then I have a folder for month and every photos for the month go in there. And when I've edited my photos, I then highlight the one single photo that I like best of the day. Sometimes it's more than one. The ones that I like, I put in a separate folder as my favorites. So when I, when it comes to creating my slideshow or my book, I don't have to go through 5,000 photos, I probably have to go through 500 to get 365.

So you narrowed it down quite a lot already. So really try to get the work done as soon as possible and not have like, oh, I've taken photos every day for five months by having edited anything. Because then again, it's this massive chunk of work that you feel like, when am I supposed to do this? So try to get it done relatively quickly. And yeah, and if you feel like you can't keep up, you probably just have to take a break completely from even doing it and say like, okay.

Anja (24:21.196)

Mm-hmm.

Anja (24:37.884)

Mm-hmm.

Anja (24:41.302)

Meow.

Anja (24:48.662)

Maybe it's not going to be 365, maybe it's going to be the majority of my year. And I'm going to take a two week break because I need to catch up with what I photographed before.

Anja (24:58.138)

Yeah, the only way you could do it is being very methodical and having a good system. I remember when I first started with Lightroom, the very first thing I learned was be organized. Pretend it's a library. And you would have to do the same with your 365 because you're right if you didn't edit anything or do anything with these photos and you have this memory card full of, you know, all these pictures and you don't remember what anyway, it would be too much. It would just be way too much. So that's a really good.

tip to be super organized in Lightroom and pick your favorites as you go versus having to go back is for you know for your slideshow or doing your book which I think you're doing 365 you really need to print this like you have to print it I feel like photographers we just don't print stuff I was on I was talking to a good friend of mine Allison Jacobs on her podcast on the creative frame podcast and she asked me if I had any photos of that I take for personal reason up in my home and I have one.

Anja (25:41.923)

Absolutely.

Anja (25:55.938)

just one. I was like, Oh my gosh, I am terrible. I need to look at you. You're doing so good. I love it. I'm like, I need to fix this right away. But yeah, like having that workflow. So, you know, because I mean, if we have a business, we have our client workflow. So we make sure we hit all of the marks and don't miss anything along the way. Having that for 365 would be super important too. So you have one specific camera and you said that that's

very helpful so you have it with you. It's already ready to go for that project at all times. I wanted to say something about that. So I did my own, I did not a 365 but a summer one and I hate post-processing with a passion and that's a lot of the reason why I shoot film. And so I just wanted to be able to take the picture and have it be done, absolutely done. So I did on Instax. I did on Instax Minis and I just had them. So I have a

I taped them with washi tape into a book. So I just think, and I'm sure you agree, whatever camera, whatever process is totally acceptable for your personal project, whether you're doing it for a week or two weeks or a summer or a year, or whatever kind of personal project you're doing of self portraiture of your family or whatever, you've got to have the equipment that works for you instead of doing it someone else's way. You need to do it your way and what works for you and the project that works for you.

Anja (27:22.45)

So I think if someone prefers to take these photos with a phone, don't feel like this makes this project less valuable. Because if you can do this, if your phone is a camera that you have near you all the time, then use your phone. The only thing is I can't use it because that just gets too messy for me because I don't take my phone, I don't use my phone to take any photos apart from snapshots, screenshots, whatever.

Anja (27:27.487)

Mm-hmm.

Anja (27:48.61)

But if someone likes to take photos with their phone, I just really would say stay organized. So again, even if you don't edit them, whenever you can, put them in folders. So you can create folders on your smartphone as well, on your iPhone or whatever phone you have. You can create folders and I would really recommend creating a folder for each month and just kind of putting photos each, like photos for every day in there already because otherwise it's gonna be very messy if you look through.

photos where you probably like you go somewhere with your family and you take like 50 photos on the day and most of them are might be crap or you cut your child takes a photo and takes million selfies and then they're clogging up your camera roll and you don't really know where the photos are that you've really wanted to look at for this project so stay organized whatever it is that you do stay organized so if you take your take a

Anja (28:27.531)

I'm sorry.

Anja (28:43.082)

Make sure that even if you don't edit the photos right away, you copy them to a hard drive or your computer. So they're not on the memory card because for example, your memory card could just suddenly break and if you have photos of a whole year and you haven't touched them, they're all gonna be gone. So put them somewhere even if you don't edit them. Same with the phone. Like you can, I mean, you can add up photos from your iPhone to your computer and just kind of have them sit on your computer in a separate folder. Just kind of make sure that it works in a way that's...

really helpful for you. I mean, I love the idea of doing instax or Polaroids. It probably gets quite pricey, especially if you do one every single day for a whole year. Yeah.

Anja (29:17.815)

Mm-hmm.

Skin stacks are a little better than a Polaroid for sure. And you can get a bunch on Amazon for like 90 bucks. And so it's not like terrible, but yes, it's more expensive than digital if you already have paid for your digital camera for sure.

Anja (29:29.494)

Yeah.

Anja (29:33.99)

Yeah, I mean, and if you don't want to do editing, shoot JPEG on your camera. I mean, I shoot Fuji. I'm an absolute Fuji lover and I know Fuji does really, really good JPEGs, but still I just like editing my... Because I don't mind editing. I actually really enjoy the process. But if that's not you, don't give yourself a task that's going to make this project really hard for you to actually pull through.

Anja (29:45.613)

Yay!

Anja (30:02.414)

That's really, I'm going to go off on a little bit of a side. So you shoot Fuji, but you don't use their recipes or simulations. That is so interesting because that's like what Fuji is known for. It's known for their simulations to be able to have it take the picture and it already looks like whatever film stock or it already is edited the way you like it. You can do it in camera. That's really interesting.

Anja (30:09.129)

No.

Anja (30:25.974)

Yeah, I mean the Fuji recipes, they look quite nice, but for me they're not quite finished enough. I did try them when I, so I got the very first Fuji X100 when it came out in 2011, I still have it. It's very old, it's very slow. I can't even sell it anymore because it probably gives me like 50 pounds or something. So it's not really worth it, I might as well just keep it. And I tried those recipes with that, just to kind of see how they look, and they look really nice, they're just.

Anja (30:31.394)

Mm-hmm.

Anja (30:38.122)

Yeah, good one.

Anja (30:47.437)

Yeah.

Anja (30:54.846)

I just like editing my photos so they all look like I would edit my work. So all of my personal and my client work all looks the same because it's all edited the same and it's like you can, I hope so anyway, you can see it's all my work. Like you can, no matter if it's a personal photo or not, you can see that it's still the same style. I use Fuji, one of the Fuji profiles as my base level. So in Lightroom you can.

Anja (31:02.577)

Mm-hmm.

Anja (31:23.418)

use the color profile of your camera and the profile can come from a recipe. So it's not like it's, I think I'm using ASTM. It's kind of vibrant, but not super contrasty or vibrant. And that's basically where I based my editing off. So that was the baseline. And then I kind of explored what else I can do with the photos to kind of enhance a little bit more of the contrast, the colors without making it super like...

Anja (31:42.286)

Mm-hmm.

Anja (31:52.366)

super funky, saturated. So I do like that Fuji has that, but it's not, I don't use that to finish my photos.

Anja (31:53.778)

Yeah.

Anja (32:01.982)

Yeah, that's interesting. Sorry. Total total side. It's total side. Often that's I don't know. I just like because Fuji does what they're known for. Oh, my goodness. OK, any last words of wisdom before we go tell people where they can find you. And if do you like have like stuff online about doing 365 projects?

Anja (32:04.762)

That's all right.

Anja (32:22.618)

I do actually have a course, so a few years ago, two, three years ago maybe, I did a course, so someone from, I don't know if you know the documentary family photographer education website, the dfp.com. It's run by a woman, she's American but she lives in Germany, Ashley Radatz, and so they offer online courses for every different, lots of different things in photography and running a photography business. And she saw me.

Anja (32:32.499)

Okay.

Anja (32:39.895)

Mm-hmm.

Anja (32:49.85)

comment on someone's thread on Facebook about 365 and I gave some tips and she said oh do you want to do a crash course for our site so I basically created a course for them it's only available through them I can't actually tell you how much it is because I don't get like I don't get anything from it anymore I think it's not very expensive though and you can get it if you are a member as well so if they also have a membership which isn't very expensive either and so what I go through

Anja (33:02.978)

Okay.

Anja (33:18.318)

how I shoot my 365, how I edit, like I literally screen recorded my screen, editing the photos, how I call and edit them and how quick I am with it, what kind of things I photographed, some tips on how to play with light and play with different functionalities. So it really covers all of the things that you would want to know if you actually want to start this project. But apart from that, I mean, there's loads of other YouTube videos about 365, I'm sure. There's lots of

Facebook groups that kind of have a community around it, they usually are quite busy in January, February, and then they die a little bit. But there's lots of other photographers who do it, who you can kind of hold yourself accountable for with, to kind of push through the year. There's some sites where they give you topics and themes around to shoot around for a month or for the week. I personally do not do that at all, because it actually...

Anja (33:54.894)

Mm-hmm.

Anja (34:16.982)

hinders me taking the photos because if I have a theme in mind and then I don't know how to visualize that theme, I'm like, I might as well not do it. So it doesn't work for me but everybody works differently so if that is something that you would enjoy, you can come up with your own themes or find some Facebook groups where they give you some themes to shoot for so you kind of always have something to aim at. But yeah, so that's my 365 course is there, I'll send you the link and yeah.

if you wanted to know more about me and my work. It's probably easier to just write it down because my name is not easy to spell for English people. Yeah. So my website is anyaproman.com and on Instagram, my main channel on Instagram is by underscore anyapi, but I actually have a 365 account, which I haven't updated since last November.

Anja (34:53.674)

it all in the show notes. I'll link everything in the show notes for people.

Anja (35:11.739)

which is called the days of my year and then I've got another one for street photography which is just Anyapi. But my main is by Anyapi.

Anja (35:18.19)

you okay I'll have everything linked in the show notes so if you're wanting to look at that it'd be interesting to see your 365 even though it's not updated just like give people ideas of how I could actually manage doing this thank you so much for coming on and talking about this because I obviously have no skills whatsoever behind a 365 personal projects yes but not three supplies so this has been so much fun I so appreciate it thank you so much

Anja (35:45.37)

Thanks so much for having me. Honestly, I love talking about it because I actually inspired quite a few people to try it. Some with one second every day and some actually taking photos every day. So I'm all for just shooting for yourself and not just for your clients.

Anja (36:02.43)

Yes, I agree. Okay, I'm gonna stop it.

My chat with Allion Jacobs | Photographers Create Podcast

Summary

In this episode, Allison Jacobs discusses her love for photographing the beach and water. She explains that while she doesn't consider herself a traditional landscape photographer, she is drawn to the beach and water because it brings her peace and calmness. Allison also talks about her experimentation with different photography styles and techniques, including film soup and double exposures. She emphasizes the importance of keeping photography fun and stress-free, and shares her love for vintage cameras and the stories they hold.

Host Alison Hatch

Takeaways

Find inspiration in places that bring you peace and calmness.

Experiment with different photography styles and techniques to keep your work fresh and exciting.

Don't be afraid to try different cameras and film stocks to find what works best for you.

Keep photography fun and stress-free by focusing on the joy of creating and connecting with other photographers.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

00:43 Being Drawn to Water and the Beach

03:41 The Solitude and Details of Beach Photography

04:36 The Influence of Impressionism in Photography

05:30 Experimenting with Different Photography Styles

08:31 The Contrast Between the Beach and the City

09:43 The Challenge of Composition and Finding Interest

11:51 Finding Inspiration Outside of Familiar Environments

13:07 Keeping Photography Fun and Stress-Free

14:51 The Stories and Connections of Vintage Cameras

15:17 The Joy of Shooting with Other Photographers

19:55 The Importance of Loving the Medium You Use

22:30 The Challenges of Shooting with Different Cameras

25:44 The Love for Different Film Stocks

28:47 The Versatility of Kodak Gold 200

34:25 Preview of the Analog Artist Retreat Photo Walk

Transcripts

Allison Jacobs (00:01.104)

Hi, Allison. Thank you so much for being on the Photographers Create podcast today. I'm super excited. It's always fun to chat with you. I always like our time together, so this should be fun.

Allison Jacobs (00:10.862)

Yes, I'm very excited. Thank you so much for asking me to be on here with you today.

Allison Jacobs (00:15.504)

Yeah, no problem. So I wanted to talk about your so you take pictures of the beach. You live in Orange County, California, and how your inspiration seems to be pulled to water. You just went to Hawaii and you took pictures there. I just recently saw your black and whites of like buildings. I was like, oh, she's stepping out of the box here. But you experiment a lot like double exposures and film soup and like a lot of play in your work. But it's not as.

portraiture, it's of more like would you consider yourself a landscape artist? Like tell me more about why you're pulled to that and those kinds of things.

Allison Jacobs (00:53.743)

I don't actually consider myself a landscape photographer in the traditional sense. I don't think that when I think of a landscape photographer, that's more defined for me, like somebody who has a tripod, maybe they're doing long exposures, they're out there at sunset, golden hour, those sort of like typical times that we think of the right, quote unquote, time to go out and shoot. And so for me, I really love getting out.

in the midday sun. I love the bright colors that gives me when I'm shooting with film. I love if I'm shooting black and white, the shadows that that gives me for that time of day. It's not that I don't love a nice sunset or golden hour light. It's just that when I'm looking at the world, I like to see a little more contrast. And I'm drawn to the beach and the water because it's somewhere that calms me.

So it's a lot of it is a way that I meditate, de -stress, bring peace to myself, peace to my life. It's a place where I can catch my breath and exhale. And so I think that just combining my love of photography and being creative with the way that I feel when I'm by water has been sort of that piece that has come together and given me this large body of

photography work that is around water.

Allison Jacobs (02:25.872)

Yeah, it seems like, what do I want to say about that? Like, I feel like for film photographers, most film photographers say that they shoot with film. One of the reasons is because it slows you down. It makes you be more present in the moment. And I've said this a million times on the podcast, but it's so true. And I can totally see how that would be a meditative thing for you walking along the beach and you like to be up high.

And you're like, I love your bright, like I love the bright colors. I love the super blue sky and all of the greens and yellows and pinks it'll bring out with color when you have full sun like that. But you're up high too. And I can see that being very contemplative. You know, lean that.

Allison Jacobs (03:11.569)

Yes, I love, I love these sort of pulled back perspective of the world. And the majority of the time that I'm shooting with my camera, I'm out wandering along, you know, South Orange County beaches and I'm by myself and I'm alone. So it is sort of a peaceful activity for me. And I think that one of the things that I'm drawn to when I'm out shooting is that sense of solitude or peace that I might.

perceived to be out there. And I also like that bird's eye view of looking down and seeing all the little people, the beach chairs, the beach umbrellas, the details. I love the composition that can be created. If I'm looking down and I can see the lifeguard truck has driven through the sand and they've created lines in the sand. And then I can wait for people to walk into a certain spot and then I shoot. So I do look for the details, even though I often am

pulled back and I have, I have a huge love for impressionism art. And I find that that pulled back look, if I'm shooting wide open, like at 1 .8, for example, it almost will give me a little bit of that dreamy sort of blurry.

appearance in my photos that reminds me a little bit of that style of art. And I actually only recently made that connection when I was doing some analyzing some of my work and realized that that's the art I'm drawn to. And I was sort of subconsciously or unintentionally recreating scenes that reminded me of that style. So that's another piece of it. It seems like it would be just walk up high and point and shoot, but that's not really my process.

There's more to it. It's more depth. More depth there.

Allison Jacobs (05:09.2)

Yeah, I can, now that you said that impressionist art is your like favorite, I can totally see it in your work. Impressionist art usually is a scene and it is colorful. And you know what I, like, I can totally see that now that you said that, your work and that connection for sure. That's awesome. I love it.

Allison Jacobs (05:30.482)

Yes. And I, and I do shoot, like you mentioned, you saw some black and white streets, more, more street. It's not, again, just like, I don't feel like I can call my beach work, landscape work. I don't think my street work is street photography, but I do really enjoy shooting on the streets, shooting people. I love architecture. I love old buildings. I love history. I love details. And I do shoot.

quite a bit of that. It's just that I don't share it on Instagram and I haven't been sharing that on Instagram. I feel like you can get kind of boxed in and people have a sense of what they're going to expect from you. And for a good while, I felt like I needed to just continue to share what I think people expected to see from me. Even though that includes things like light leaks and film soup and other ways that I experiment with film.

The colors of all of those things are the same. The subject of the photos is the same. It's just the technique that I'm using to go about capturing it is different. And recently I kind of rediscovered that love of black and white. And I've been shooting more with my Polaroid SX70 using only black and white film.

I have kind of become obsessed with HP5, black and white film for 35. And I also have had a recent sort of like, you know what? I don't really care about my Instagram consistency. I'm just gonna share what I wanna share. And if it doesn't match and people don't expect it, well, it's all still me. And I do think it all has threads through it that are my style.

I think from my perspective as the artist, I think looking at it, well, it all looks like me, but I don't know from the outside perspective if that's true or not. But that's, you know, my thinking behind it is like, I am the artist behind this. And so here we go.

Allison Jacobs (07:35.536)

No, I totally, it's definitely your work. No matter what technique you're using or what camera you're using. And I agree, Polaroid black and white is some sort of magic. Cause I have had a hard time like leaning into the Polaroid thing and black and white, black and white Polaroid is like, Ooh baby, this is awesome. So I can totally see you doing that. And HP5 is magical. I don't know if you listeners had listened to two episodes ago when I interviewed.

David Turan and he only uses HP5 on all of his work with the Hasselblad Ballet stuff is crazy amazing. It's great film stock if you haven't tried it. But I wanted to ask you, you live in such a very condensed busy city. I know that, you know, Southern California isn't known for being built up, but it's definitely built out and it's a lot of congestion and you're right on this edge. Like, and the beaches in Southern California are usually sandcliffed beaches and it's like,

that's where you're drawn to. Do you feel like that's also part of your pull to the beach and this expanse beyond, you know, out over the water when you live in such a tight, you know, very populated area?

Allison Jacobs (08:46.42)

I don't know if I've ever made that specific connection. I think that I personally am drawn to the busier beaches and the beaches that have more of the natural landscape with the cliff sides. And part of that for me is that it gives me more to photograph. It gives me more to put into my composition. I think that I have shot, like for example, on a

a beach in Malibu and where it was wide open sand and it felt very expansive. And I struggled with the water and the sand. You're looking out at the water and there's only so many ways without using really creative techniques. You can't just take a whole roll of 36 shots looking directly at the water with the sand. So for me, I do really enjoy having.

peers and restaurants and people and shops and landforms, flowers, trees, other things, because it gives me pieces of interest and it allows me to build the composition.

And it is something that I feel like I am constantly working on. I mean, that is definitely forever. And a day has been my goal to try to continue to improve. I think about things like what's in the foreground. What is my subject? What's in focus? What's in my background? What am I trying to highlight here? What's the message I'm trying to send? Because yes, it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful beach. We can all agree. It's a beautiful beach, but.

You can only take a photograph of a beautiful beach so many times before, at least for me, before I start thinking, okay, what else? What else am I looking at? What else am I looking for? Where's the human element? Are there colors, patterns? You know, I really do have to challenge myself. And so when I'm out wandering, sometimes I'm in my own head processing the day, processing things that are going on in my life. And I might take two or three shots of something that catches my attention.

Allison Jacobs (10:57.462)

And other times I give myself almost an assignment and I go out and I'm shooting a certain film stock or I'm using a certain technique or I'm looking for certain things and I only shoot when I see those things or when I'm working on that technique. And so it varies. And part of that is because I think that even though I live in a beautiful area and I'm super lucky to have access to the beaches I have access to.

I'm still going to the same places every day, just like somebody who might live in New York City might feel. I think, wow, the street photography you can do in New York City, if only I could live there for six months and just shoot every day. But if I lived there for six months and shot every day and I was in the same places in New York City, I'd probably start to feel like, okay, I need to mix this up, I need to add some things in, because I just think that's the nature of it.

Allison Jacobs (11:51.344)

Absolutely. I completely agree. I'm so much more inspired when I'm outside of my natural element when we're on vacation. I want to shoot more visiting different places or going to something we don't normally go to museum or something like that. I want to shoot more versus my everyday landscape. I look at like that is a challenge even though yes, it is a beach and it's beautiful and wonderful, but it would get old for anybody. Like you said, like how can I shoot this?

different ways that's so awesome that you give yourself that goal, that assignment to change it up. How can I do something differently? My composition or color or whatever. It's a challenge to keep shooting the same thing over and over and over again and feeling inspired.

Allison Jacobs (12:37.558)

Yes, and keeping it fresh and keeping it exciting and fun for me. This is something that I want photography to bring something into my life. I don't want it to be an added stressor. We all have so many natural stressors built into our lives and just chaos and things going on. And our world moves at such a busy, fast pace that if I was adding a layer into my life that was adding to that stress and making me

unhappy, then it wouldn't be working for me the way that it does. And so I love just picking up vintage cameras, throwing a roll of film in, seeing what happens. I love changing out lenses. I love experimenting in different ways. And all of that is part of what keeps it fresh for me and keeps it fun and keeps it exciting. And here's something I look forward to. Okay. I'm really excited because I just.

Got this $12 camera from Goodwill. Let me load it up and let's go see what happens. And oftentimes those ones that are $12, like I have an Argus and I think that they, you know, they made hundreds of thousands of copies of this camera and it was such a popular camera and it's time and you can find them super cheap now. And you know, it was so fun to use it and try it out and, and feel like who else held this camera.

What other stories did they tell of their life while they were using this camera? How many people have owned this camera? How many lives has it touched? And then here I am in, you know, 2023 and I'm out on the streets shooting in downtown San Juan Capistrano with this beautiful camera. And it also is a point of conversation because I do shoot by myself quite a bit. When I have more of those unusual cameras, a lot of times people will stop me if they recognize it, if they...

understand its film. And I do the same thing. I stopped somebody recently on the pier in San Clemente because I recognized his camera was a film camera and said, oh, hey, you're shooting film. And I held up my Nikon and said, I'm shooting film too. And then we stood there and had a 20 minute conversation about film photography.

Allison Jacobs (14:51.152)

fun. That is so fun. I didn't think about that. Like, because all of our film cameras are vintage. They have all had some sort of life before they came to us. I've never thought about that. I just love that idea. Like, what has been created with this camera before me? And what did this camera do for that person before? What kind of magic did it create? What kind of pictures did it take? Like, maybe it didn't take any kind of pictures like I normally take with it. That is so I love that idea.

I love that idea, I love that connection. That is so cool. And it is true when you shoot film and you see other people shooting film, it's like this automatic friendship. It's just instant. You're like, hey, this is cool. We do both do this. And you have so much to talk about. And that's how you and I met. You and I met over Instagram. And I go to Southern California very often because I have family there and we're trying to transition there. And I was like, hey, let's go shoot. And you took me on a photo walk and showed me.

you know, all the beaches that you normally shoot at, which was so much fun to do that together. And I don't know, it's do you, you don't, you say you shoot by yourself a lot, but do you do it with friends very often and ever?

Allison Jacobs (16:01.305)

I will shoot with anybody who comes to town who reaches out to let me know that they're here. I will reach out to people if I see they're coming. I have met a number of Instagram photography friends when I've seen that they're vacationing somewhere nearby and I DM and say, hey, would you want to meet for a cup of coffee or do you have an hour and do you want to go shoot? I'll take you to some of my favorite beaches. I love where I live and I...

Allison Jacobs (16:06.672)

Yes! Yes.

Allison Jacobs (16:28.698)

being able to show it off to other photographers. Photographers have a different reaction to it than other people. While everybody thinks it's beautiful, there is something really fun and special about getting to take other photographers and show them those little spots that pull me in, that I gravitate to over and over again, and then having an opportunity to see what they shoot and see what they see there.

It's invigorating for me to see the results that somebody else took from the same spot that I stand all the time. And it gives me new ideas and it's just, it's just fun.

Allison Jacobs (17:13.424)

Yeah, it was super fun. We've shot together a couple of times and it was super fun. Cause I don't normally shoot the way you do, but it's pulled me more into that. Like you're not landscape, whatever genre you're going to call yourself, you know, but this like perspective, I feel like you're...

the way it's a kind of perspective. And to do that in other places where I've been has been super fun to like adapt that into my work. And yeah, it's the same beach and to see how we've looked at it differently is really fun. And to just talk film and talk, you know, just all things photography and motherhood and work and things like that and Instagram and podcasting.

Like it is, it's been, it's been super fun to chat with you about all those things. So what is your like go -to camera? I know you shoot film, but last time I was with you, you had a digital camera in your hand. Are you using that Fuji anymore? Or did you just try it out for a little bit? Do you remember? Oh, was it an icon? Oh, you dig it. Oh, that's right. It was an icon. It wasn't a Fuji. Did you like it? You sold it.

Allison Jacobs (18:22.555)

Oh, it was the Nikon. It was.

I sold it. I sold it for a loss. I couldn't love it. The reason that I wanted to try it, well, there were a couple of reasons why I wanted to try it. One was because I am consistently telling myself I'm going to get better at video. And I see people who put together beautiful videos with music and they do magical things with video. And I've probably taken...

at least five, if not more video courses over the years. And no matter how much practice I get, it's just something that doesn't click in my brain the way that I want it to. And so I had taken a class from Kim Klassen. I don't know if anybody, she's not a film photographer, but she does beautiful still life work and she has a studio and she does videos. And so I took one of her video workshops maybe a year or a year and a half ago, and that was a camera that she recommended.

And I thought, okay, I haven't bought an update. I hadn't shot with a mirrorless camera and I hadn't shot with a digital, my digital camera is a Canon Mark D2, I think. So it's 109 years old. Um, and it's, and it's, I mean, it still works. If I need a digital camera, I can pull it out, charge the battery and it, it does everything I need it to do. But I hadn't shot with a mirrorless. And so I gave this one a try and.

I also have a, I also had the opportunity to meet up with a LA photographer quite a bit who almost exclusively shoots with crop mirrorless cameras. And the Nikon that I bought was a crop. And I also haven't shot. I've only shot full frame for probably two decades. So that was also a change and.

Allison Jacobs (20:20.508)

So I met up with her and did a photo walk with her and she was giving me tips and tricks and I would come home and I would upload my work and I.

just didn't like any of it. None of it felt like me, none of it looked like me. I was shooting the way that I normally shoot. I was trying to shoot differently. Anyway, short story, I sold it. Didn't work for me.

Allison Jacobs (20:42.224)

I think it's really important to love the medium that you're working with. Like in photography, we are lucky and also cursed that there is so much tech out there to try. So many different lenses, so many different cameras from like so, so much lighting and on and on and on. It just goes on and on. And you have to like the medium that you're using and as artists, that's the same for any, in our genre, it's the same for any genre. If you're a painter, do you want...

acrylic watercolor, oil, charcoal, like there are so many different mediums. And if you're a potter, there's so many different kinds of clay. And I think that it's not that, I feel like sometimes people think that film people are trying to be snobby or elitist and it's not the case. I think it's just, that's what works. That's what feels the right thing in your hand. And it produces the kind of images that you're looking for.

And if you have a Nikon or a Canon or whatever you want to shoot with Fuji, like my son, he loves Fuji. We will not switch ever from a Fuji, which is also a crop sensor. You know, like that's what they, if you love it, don't look at anybody else. Stay just like put on your blinders and be like, this is what I love. This is what works for me. And if it's an old camera, who cares if that's what works? Like, I feel like we get into this.

I should try that, I should try that. I also feel that way in film. Like there's so many cameras to try and it's like, oh, I should try this, it would be fun. Like with the Polaroid SX70, I was like, I don't love it. And I'm trying to love it, but I don't love it. And it's like the black and white I like, but I'm just struggling with it. So I don't blame you for getting rid of it. And I'm sorry you got at a loss though. Which Nikon was it? Do you remember?

Allison Jacobs (22:30.558)

The Nikon Z FC.

Allison Jacobs (22:32.752)

I don't know that one. I don't have that one. I've got a Nikon Z5. It's like, and I use it very rarely. I use it to like take pictures of my slides, like have my film, like it's to, you know, process, but that's probably it. Anyway, okay.

Allison Jacobs (22:49.95)

Yes, yeah, and I do like, the reason I like experimenting with film cameras, yes, on one hand, having an endless number of cameras that you can try because film's been around so long. Also, it gives you the opportunity to find one that feels really good in your hand or feels really intuitive or gives you the results that you are surprised by even. So I had bought a couple of little,

Allison Jacobs (23:16.016)

Yeah.

Allison Jacobs (23:19.007)

plastic toy cameras from the 50s and 60s that are really fun and they shoot film that you would typically have a hard time finding like 620 film. But I have also found some websites that sell that film new, like they've re -schooled it. I don't know if that's the right term. I'm not a technical shooter, so if I said that wrong, all the people out there can message me. But they somehow are selling it and it's new, fresh film, but they're...

but they're selling the 620 format. So instead of going on Etsy, which is what I used to do and try to find one and it had expired in 1972, for example, and I would throw it in the camera and see what happened. Now I know I can use fresh film in an old camera and then I know I'm getting true results from that camera. And even if I just shoot one or two rolls in a camera like that, it still is fun to anticipate what the results are gonna be.

and see what happens. And then if I love them, then now I have a new camera that I can add into my stock to pull from if I want a certain look or a certain size film. Cause as you know, we've got, you know, six, four, five cameras, six, seven cameras, six by six cameras. You have all these different cameras that shoot different sizes and dimensions. And so for example, for me, the square format is something that I wanted to love.

I bought my first TLR, the Yashica, and I wanted to love it. And I knew that I didn't want to jump right into the most expensive line of the TLR cameras, but the Yashica has a great reputation. It's a beautiful camera. It's been around for ages. And I thought I was going to be, I don't know, Vivian Mayer and go around and take.

you know, self portraits and the reflections or something. I don't know. I don't know what I thought I was going to, it was going to make me a good street photographer. I don't know. But anyway, the, I loved the camera. I loved using it. I loved everything about it. I loved the results. What I didn't love was the six by six results. And that was just really hard for me. My brain doesn't see in the square format. Not that I couldn't practice and can we continue to get there, but I really love the six.

Allison Jacobs (25:11.712)

Yeah.

Allison Jacobs (25:18.768)

Yeah.

Allison Jacobs (25:40.544)

four five format.

And so I don't pick up the TLR very often. I had two and now I have one. Cause you have one of them now.

Allison Jacobs (25:52.528)

Because I took one I bought one off you and I love it. I absolutely love that camera I don't use it a whole lot, but I should I mean to use it more because it is a Fantastic camera and you're right. I do there's no way I was gonna jump to like a rolloflex right away There's no freaking way. I was gonna spend that kind of money and it's a fantastic little camera

Allison Jacobs (26:13.505)

Yes. And that kind of circles back to what I was saying at the beginning. It's so fun for me. I was imagining all these stories of who had this camera before me. And then now I know what I've taken with the camera. And then to get to hand it off to you, when you, one of our photo walks, when you were here in Orange County and you shot with it that day, you used it that day. And it was so fun to feel like that camera is getting a new breath of life from a new photographer. And it's, it's journey is continuing.

Allison Jacobs (26:30.864)

Yeah.

Allison Jacobs (26:43.329)

So I loved that.

Allison Jacobs (26:43.696)

I love that. Anytime I see a new camera, film camera, I'm like, hey, where have you been? Tell me your story. I'm gonna wanna sit with it and try to glean what it had before, kind of imagine. I love that idea. All right, I'm gonna make you do Sophie's Choice. Which camera would you pick out of all of them as your favorite?

I know, I mean.

Allison Jacobs (27:07.233)

I would probably, oh, that's so hard. I would probably go with one of my 35s because of the practicality. While I want to not lean on that, that is unfortunate. I won't say unfortunately. I can be a practical person. That is a part of my personality. And so I think about being able to have 36 frames.

Allison Jacobs (27:12.334)

Mm -hmm.

Allison Jacobs (27:30.448)

Yeah.

Allison Jacobs (27:36.13)

I really enjoy that. The 35s are usually smaller, more portable, easier to cart around with you all the time. So I would probably go with either my Nikon F3T or my Canon EOS 3. And I love them for different reasons. And I pick them up for different reasons. And so choosing between those two would be really, really hard. But one of those, but I, at least I narrowed it down from medium format to

Allison Jacobs (28:05.872)

You did, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. You can have two, I'll let you have two. All right, which film stock do you like? Like, cause you shoot lots of different film stocks. Which one do you like the most? Like it seems to be like film photographers end up getting in this known for a certain film stock and then they just continue to use that film stock. But you said before, you don't want to get put in a box. We've talked about this before on our film walk. I think last time was how Instagram you get put in a box.

Allison Jacobs (28:06.338)

35. Okay.

Allison Jacobs (28:32.496)

and you have to keep producing the same thing over and over again and I'm actually in that situation right now, which has been very interesting and I'm trying to write it out. We'll see how it goes. But which film stock do you like to shoot with the most?

Allison Jacobs (28:47.138)

So I really love Kodak Gold 200 for soup. That's my favorite film to soup with. I have also started to really fall in love with it for everyday shooting and that is newer for me. For a while I got stuck in the portrait 400 lane because it's just so dependable, reliable, consistent.

Allison Jacobs (28:53.904)

Good one.

Allison Jacobs (29:13.699)

I know what I'm going to get. I know how to shoot it. I know how to meter for it. I don't ever worry about it. It's not a finicky film stock. It's the stock that if somebody asks me, what should I start with? I say portrait 400 because you really can't go wrong. But I have been using the Kodak gold more just for every day. When, if you'd asked me this a year or two ago, I would have probably said portrait 400 for my everyday stuff. Kodak gold.

200 for my soup and then I really love some of the experimental film stocks Kono 100 notes Kono KONO Again, I feel like sometimes when you were reading things all the time and you never hear anybody say it I'm like, I don't know how to say that but they have one called sunstroke and it's amazing and then double double bubble jelly love Because it looks like light leaks if you're scared to if you want the look of light leaks

Allison Jacobs (30:00.88)

I've never tried that. I've never tried that one.

Yeah, it does.

Allison Jacobs (30:12.675)

but you're intimidated by the actual having to shoot the roll, reload it, open the back of your camera a bunch of times in a mostly dark space.

Allison Jacobs (30:22.289)

And you'll lose images that way too. You always lose images when you do light leaks. Yeah.

Allison Jacobs (30:27.652)

Yes, yeah. So again, just like the camera, I can't narrow it down for you, Alison, but I can tell you like, you know, yeah, for soup, for experimental film. And I just, I feel like the experimental film is kind of an easy way out of doing some of the things like light leaks, but if it's there and it's a tool you can use, then why not?

Allison Jacobs (30:43.472)

and you pay for it. Yeah. There are so many experimental film stocks. I cannot keep up. I just came across one called Hanna log. It's out of Germany and it's pre -suit roles. And I just messaged her. I was like, how does this not ruin my camera? Like you're going to have to tell me how this isn't going to remind camera because I have always said you have to do it afterwards. Cause like if you put soap in your, you know, film soup or acid, like,

Allison Jacobs (30:57.079)

Yes.

Allison Jacobs (31:12.24)

how is that not gonna just destroy your camera? So I messaged her, but it's really cool. There's so many different experimental film stocks out there. You do pay more for sure, but if you're scared, it's a great way to start. But I think Kodak Gold is so underrated. I feel like it's Ektar and Portra had a beautiful, beautiful baby. Like, because it's not as punchy as Ektar, but the blues are, you know what I mean? Like it still has that saturation of color and.

like lovely color that Ektar can do when it's done so right. And then I feel like gold is really versatile. I feel like it's super easy and its latitude is pretty decent. Like portrait 400 is too. I love Kodak Gold. I think it's such a great film stock.

Allison Jacobs (32:00.581)

And it's a little more forgiving for portraits than Ektar. I did shoot Ektar almost exclusively for, I mean, years probably, because it's like the perfect film for blue skies, sunny days, beach, colors, pop, contrast, all those things. And yet, if you don't have all those things and you don't meter right, it can be really messy. And also,

Allison Jacobs (32:03.632)

Yeah.

Allison Jacobs (32:08.624)

Oh gosh.

Allison Jacobs (32:20.72)

It's a mess.

Allison Jacobs (32:25.378)

Yeah.

Allison Jacobs (32:29.541)

While I don't share a ton of portraits, I do love taking portraits. And oftentimes there'll be one or two scattered in a roll. And so if you have Ektar loaded and you want to do a portrait of somebody, then you shoot with what you have. And then you're having to be a little more careful because of skin tones.

with Ektar and gold I think is a little more forgiving and makes it a little easier to just shoot what you have in your camera as well. So I agree with you 100%. I mean, Ektar can be beautiful and I used to push myself to only use it because I loved the results when they're spot on, they'll blow you away.

Allison Jacobs (33:03.79)

Oh, yeah.

Allison Jacobs (33:11.888)

Oh, they're so good. They're so good. But I would never shoot portraits with it. I have seen it done like Jennifer Lawrence. There's one picture of Jennifer Lawrence's is this girl in this like 40s, 50 ish polka dotted bikini on a boat and her skin looks amazing. I'm like, how is this Ektar? Ektar is not normally, you know, conducive with nice skin tones and it looks so lovely. And I like shooting with Ektar too. But if you mess it up, man.

It looks, there's no saving it. There's no saving it in post. It's toast. Like it is completely done. I under exposed one time when my kids were playing and they were flying a kite and it was just red muddied mess. It was awful. Yeah, totally, totally. So Alison, thank you so much for being here with me. I wanted to talk a little bit about you are going to be leading a photo walk.

Allison Jacobs (33:57.509)

Yes.

Allison Jacobs (34:09.136)

for the analog artist retreat. And you get to take us to all these beautiful beaches that you know of down in Southern California. It's gonna be super exciting. Do you wanna tell us a little bit about it? Do you wanna give us a little hint of where we're going? Okay.

Allison Jacobs (34:25.19)

Sure, sure. I was thinking, and I know some things are still dependent upon your planning and what you need and want for that weekend, but I love La Jolla area for being able to get a little bit of that street city, people, some cool buildings, some outdoor patios, great wall art. There are some beautiful murals on walls down there in La Jolla if you're walking around in more of the city park.

Allison Jacobs (34:32.592)

Yeah.

Allison Jacobs (34:55.271)

And then also the beaches with what we were talking about before. Some of the cliffside, some of the landscape pieces, lots of people. Some I, I, you know, I've lived here for 15 years and sea lions and seals. I don't know. I think those are sea lions. Um, one of those two animals, there's tons of them down there. And so some people really love that. Sometimes they're on this little Cove beach area and then people are trying to swim and then they're all together and.

that's entertaining, but there's a loop you can do. It kind of starts in the city and you walk down and you can get some of that city feel and then you can walk down to the beach and there's just, there's a lot of variety. So whether you love the beach and the ocean and that part of the shooting or whether you love more of walking around the beach town and the city part, there's just a little bit of both. And so that was my idea for the photo walk. Yes.

Allison Jacobs (35:47.92)

Oh, I think La Jolla is charming. Yes, La Jolla is so charming. And you're right. It has everything. And it even has like a full on hike that's like off the street that's on dirt as you go along the cliffs and it has fantastic views of the ocean and like the rock formations are super cool there. And La Jolla is just charming as can be. It's absolutely so charming if you wanted to do street. So that sounds like so much fun. I'm excited. Yeah.

Allison Jacobs (36:15.496)

Yes, yeah, so that's my idea, depending on, you know, you and I can chat more and I'm always adaptable and flexible. And I know that a lot of people are probably gonna have their own favorite film cameras that they're bringing, but you know, I will be local -ish. You know, San Diego's a 45 minute drive, as you know, you know, it's a little drive, but local -ish, so I'm not flying. And so I was thinking it would be fun. I can bring some of my...

Allison Jacobs (36:18.872)

Love it!

Allison Jacobs (36:42.952)

my different cameras down and if somebody wants to give, you know, a Holga a try, if they've never shot with one or some of the other kinds of cameras before buying it, because that's another thing too. Sometimes you shoot one roll through a camera and you know it's not the one for you. And even if they're just, and I say just loosely, a hundred dollars, it's still a hundred dollars and you've spent it. Now you have this camera that you may not use again. So I was thinking, oh, it will be fun. I can just throw a bunch of cameras in the car and if somebody has,

You know, I've got a good handful of the toy cameras, the Diana, the Holga, the Lomo Apparat. Like I have, you know, a handful of those. And so if somebody wanted to give any of those a try, the Kodak HP 35, I think that's what it's called. The one that's the cheap little plastic half -grain one. That one's a fun one. So anyway.

Allison Jacobs (37:29.936)

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That sounds like so much fun. All the toys. We're going to bring all the toys. Well, thanks, Allison. I appreciate being on today. It'll be so good to see you in a couple of weeks. But this has been lots of fun. Thank you so much. All right.

Allison Jacobs (37:35.528)

Yes. Yeah.

Allison Jacobs (37:42.055)

Yes.

Thank you, bye.

Allison Jacobs (37:46.64)

Okay, I'm gonna stop it real quick.

5 Things I’ve Done to Improve my Photography Business | Photographers create Podcast

Summary

In this episode, the host shares five things that have helped her photography business throughout the years. She emphasizes the importance of learning from mistakes and shares information about upcoming workshops and online courses. The five key themes discussed are: hiring a mentor, following one's gut, getting outside of one's comfort zone, having other creative outlets, and taking the emotion out of the business. These strategies have helped the host improve her work, build consistency, connect with clients, and find fulfillment in her photography business.

Analog Artist

Film Soup Online Course

5 thing for buz (00:04.462)

Hey everyone, welcome to the Photographers Create Podcast. It's me again, flying solo. Today I am talking about the opposite of what I talked about last week, five things that have helped my photography business throughout the years. This is a fun one, I really am excited to talk about this one after last week's which felt a little, oh, but you know, it's important to share those things that went wrong versus.

It's important to share those things that went wrong so we can learn from our mistakes. It's not failure, it's learning. So today we're gonna talk about the positive things. Before I do that, let's talk about the analog artist workshop and film soup online course. I've talked about these a lot. The analog artist workshop is April 27th to 28th. It's Saturday and Sunday in North County, San Diego. I will be there, Alison Jacobs will be there. We'll be teaching you.

all things film. So if you are ready to learn analog film or up your analog film game, this is the workshop for you. It's going to be low pressure, super fun, hands on learning all things film. Starting from the very beginning of metering and your camera and film stocks all the way to creative techniques and even developing. If you are into that, we will also be doing film soup. So if you are wanting to incorporate film into your client workflow and become a hybrid photographer or

straight on film, this is the workshop for you. You're gonna leave with feeling very confident about your work and being able to provide consistency with your clients' images. The other thing is Film Soup, which I just talked about, analog artist workshop, is now an online course. It is a 30 minute video course, but in digestible bite -size pieces. It's not a whole sit down and watch it for 30 minutes.

This is a great way to start with film soup if you are nervous about taking something that costs you maybe $15 and you're going to have to spend 20 plus dollars to get it developed and put it in a bunch of ingredients and hope it turns out. That's scary and I get it. So if you do this online course, I pinky promise that that that your images will turn out. You will not be ruining anything. It comes with the video, all the videos, and then also comes with an 18 page PDF.

5 thing for buz (02:20.078)

with what ingredients to use. There's really skies the limit with that though and what they do to your film. Multiple, multiple recipes and I even have included some bonus of souping black and white film and medium format film. Yes, you can soup medium format film. So all of that is on my website. I'll be linking everything in the show notes. So if you're interested in that, head to the show notes, okay?

Let's get to talking about the five things that have helped my photography business. The first thing is hiring a mentor. It is expensive to hire a mentor a lot of the time and I get it. Why spend all that money when you don't really have that much money in the beginning anyway? Having a mentor is the key. They can see your potential and see the journey, the way for you to get through to that potential.

faster than you can do yourself. It's also wonderful to have the support to have the person to be able to ask the questions, someone to bounce ideas off of. Mentorship is the way to go and I have done multiple mentorships with Brooke Schultz, Jan Palmer and recently with Fiona Margo. Every single person was worth the money for me and have helped me along the way and I am so thankful for these amazing women.

who are willing to share their knowledge with me and other people. So if you have a pain point in your business or your creativity, find a mentor that is going to be able to help you through that and help you bust through that glass ceiling that you are hitting at the moment. Mentorship, mentorship, mentorship. I cannot say that enough. Find a mentor. The second one is following my gut. Now this isn't really like a business -y thing.

But as creatives, we all are basing things off of emotion a lot of the time. And in life, if you've been here for a while, you know I'm a little woo -woo -wee. So I feel like this, you know, working with creativity and the universe and all these things that are very flowing that we don't really realize a lot of the time. We listen to all these outside sources. It's so loud. It's so loud. You should be doing this. You should be...

5 thing for buz (04:37.262)

should be doing this and this and this and this and so and so is doing this and it's working for them so it should work for me. That's not the way this works. When I started listening to my gut on certain things is when I finally got to a place where I was super happy with my work and my business. So here, I'm gonna tell you a little story. So before COVID, it feels like it's so weird we have this before and after COVID thing now in our lives.

But before COVID, I specifically remember where Thanksgiving dinner, I was hanging out with my best friend and her parents and my best friend's dad loves to take pictures. And we were talking about it and whatever. And he was asking me what I was up to lately. And I said, well, I've just been really wanting to learn analog film. And he's like, why? Why would you do that? That's how he started in photography is because so long ago, that's all there was.

And he's like, oh, digital is so much better. It's so much easier. And it makes these beautiful images, which it absolutely does. And he was like, don't do analog film. It's just a waste of time. And I had other people question me on it. This is before I even started. I mean, I had taken pictures back in the day of my oldest, because that's all there was before digital photography. Digital photography came along pretty quickly after that. But when he was really little, I have a ton of pictures of him running away from me because he was a very, very busy child.

and film is slower and it was just, I get it, it wasn't great. It just was not great because I didn't go to school for photography so I didn't know what I was doing. But I had other people tell me, don't do it, don't do it. But something inside of me wanted to do it, it needed to do it. So I got, I started taking courses and I, when I was in the middle of one of my courses, I just got this like overwhelming spiritual feeling. I know that is so weird.

that I was in the right place. Like I even started crying. Like this is it. This is what I've been looking for. This is what's been missing from my work. And it was, it absolutely was. It wasn't the best business move because I had to start all over again with everything. I had to get new cameras. I had to get, you know, light meter and learn film and it was expensive and I messed up a ton. And it just wasn't the, you know, smartest thing financially.

5 thing for buz (06:56.078)

But for my creativity and my soul and heart, it was just overflowing with joy. It makes me so happy to work with film and I needed to follow my gut with that. And now I shoot with film only for my family and my clients. And is it easier? No, a lot of times it can be a lot harder, but that's what I need to do. And when I do take those pictures that way, I am so much happier with the outcome. All right.

The third thing for what's been helping my business the most, oh, let me backtrack. Because I started shooting film and I was happier with my work, then my consistency was amazing and I have been able to be consistent for many years this way now and that has helped my business being consistent. If you've listened to my previous podcast, not being consistent is what's gonna crush you in your business. So being consistent is the key. All right, number three.

getting outside of my comfort zone on social media and other marketing, like showing my face, writing personal emails, introducing myself to people as a photographer. I mean, stuff that you would never do. As women, we are taught not to brag about ourselves. We are taught not to be outgoing as much and pushy as much. And I don't even like that word pushy. We just aren't taught to go after what we want. And men would...

that's part of their identity is what they do. But as women, we're like, well, I'm a mom. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're a photographer who also is a mother and has also many other things. So being able to talk about yourself and what you do has been the biggest thing for me by far in my business and my confidence. So getting online, talking on stories,

I was talking about emails. So in my emails, I write something personal about my life, sharing those personal things to create connection. And it also makes me happy. Like when I had started doing this more and more about being comfortable and getting outside of my comfort zone on social media has actually made me happy and has been more fulfilling because I'm connecting with more people. More people are connecting with.

5 thing for buz (09:12.398)

the things through my email, I'll have people respond and it has nothing to do with photography, but they needed some support in some way with that problem that I was also having. And I love doing that. Part of the reason why I'm a photographer and especially a family photographer is because I love connections between people and relationships. So that has been very fulfilling for me. Another thing about getting outside of my comfort zone is trying new things.

Going to educational experiences that I was nervous to do, I was really nervous to go to Jan Palmer's thing. It made no sense to go. It was her creative path workshop. It was in the spring of last year and it was in North County, like in Northern California. It was really hard for me to get there and it was hard. I was like, I don't know if I should do this. And it was absolutely worth every single second that I was there. So push yourself.

Push yourself out of that comfort zone. There's no way you can grow unless you are feeling uncomfortable. I think Sting said that or David Bowie. I have to find that quote somewhere. But there's no way that you can grow unless you're uncomfortable. So if you are comfortable right now, you're not gonna grow. So find someplace that you can be uncomfortable and push yourself. Push yourself a little bit, my friend, and it will be worth it. All right, the fourth thing is have other creative outlets.

Photography is in everything and especially if you've been shooting for a long time and you have this clientele and this the workflow down and it can kind of get monotonous it can start to feel really yucky or it can also just help your photography in a lot of other ways. So I also love to I shoot my family on vacation. That is one of my ways to get outside of it. I don't

show hardly any of it. Maybe like 10 % of what I shoot for my family when we're on vacations and doing fun things outside in the city, I don't share. That's just for me. That's personally for me. The other thing I do, I'm a big knitter. I'm a total old lady. I learned to knit at 19 when I first got really sick and couldn't really do much as they were trying to figure things out. And I learned to knit for my Nana and my Nana has passed away and I have this connection with her and I love.

5 thing for buz (11:36.142)

creating through fiber arts. And I actually had a friend of mine, Liz Glenn, said, she's like, I can totally see in your work that you knit and you do fiber arts because it has a texture to it. And I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't even realize that. So your other creative outlets can boost and affect your photography, which isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing. Something else I do is I love to garden. I have an indoor jungle. Look, there's some of my jungle right there behind me. If you are on YouTube, you can see that. And journaling, I love to journal.

That is something I will never share with the world, but it's something I do for myself and it makes me happy. So whatever your creative outlets are, lean in a little bit outside of photography, lean into those creative outlets because doing that has made me feel more rejuvenated when I come back to my photography business. It has influenced my photography work. And when I push myself outside of my comfort zone and share doing these other things online,

through my social media and other marketing avenues, it connects with other people. So it's a win -win all around. And it's fun. We all need to have some fun, right? The last thing is taking the emotion out of my business. This is so hard. We all, being artists, there is emotional connection to our work.

and it is so hard to remove the emotion from that. So for instance, you deliver a gallery and you don't hear back from a client ever. And you don't, you're like, oh my gosh, do they not like it? And you're like freaking out that you did something wrong. It's like, should I reach out to them and see if they're like, maybe they hated it. I need to do a reshoot or you like start spiraling. It's not helpful at all for your business. You have no idea what that person is actually thinking.

Maybe they're just not people who give feedback. Maybe they're super busy. They probably loved him, but they're not going to say anything because when do we all say how much we love everything to that person's business? You know, we can all leave reviews, but who does that? Not very many people do that unless you're angry, but removing the emotion from it. So like when you post something on social media and it doesn't get a great response or a great view, you send out an email list.

5 thing for buz (13:58.286)

email and you get crickets you don't hear anything back all the time we are genuinely giving a piece of ourselves because all of this is creation it's not just photography we are creators in a lot of different areas when you own your own business so if you remove the emotion out of it and try to make it more transactional which sounds terrible

But it's true because that's what businesses are. They're transactional. A person hires you, they give you money, you give them pictures back. It's a transaction. So if you kind of remove the emotion out of it, you'll spend less time in your head, it'll be less stressful, and you're able to do your things within your business that you need to create and post and do without it being such an energy suck, such a drain on yourself.

removing the emotion of it. And then when you get someone who does say, this was amazing, I loved it, you can bask in that and love on that. But removing the emotion from it, that has been a huge thing to help my business. It's helped my productivity immensely and has helped me get more clients actually. So those are my five things for my business. I hope that you can take this and find a way for you, maybe some of these things you need to add into your business.

or in your personal life to be able to make things better for yourself and just love your business a little more and have it be a little bit more successful. All right, everyone, thank you so much for being here. If you would leave me a review, I would be so appreciative. Wherever you get your podcast, Apple podcasts would be great. Anywhere would be awesome. If you would leave me a quick review, even if you just did the stars, I would be so appreciative. That would help my little podcasts get out and be in front of more photographers and hopefully help them like I have helped you.

Alright everyone, thank you so much and have a wonderful, wonderful day. Bye!

5 Mistakes I’ve Make in My Photography Business | Photographers Create Podcast

Summary

In this episode, host Alison Hatch discusses five mistakes she made in her photography business and provides advice on how to avoid them. The mistakes include not finalizing her style before charging clients, incorporating expensive programs and systems, paying for branding, believing a big social media following is necessary, and charging too much. The host emphasizes the importance of consistency, simplicity, and understanding the local market when running a photography business. She also encourages photographers to support and advocate for each other in the industry.

Analog Artist Workshop

Online Film Soup Course

5 mistakes (00:00.558)

Hey everyone, welcome to the Photographers Podcast. Today I am flying solo and I'm going to be talking about the five mistakes, five of many mistakes I should say. I'm not gonna tell them all today, but five mistakes that I've made in my photography business that hopefully if you hear them, you won't make them and it will have been for something instead of for nothing, the mistakes I made. That's not true. When we make mistakes, we learn and I definitely have learned from these.

But before we get to that, I wanna talk real quick about the analog artist workshop that's happening April 27th and 28th in North County, San Diego, where we'll be going over all things film. So if you are wanting to learn analog film or incorporating it into your client workflow and becoming a hybrid photographer, I can talk, or jumping to film altogether, this workshop is for you. We will be going over everything, starting with the basics of your camera.

and light metering film and then how to work with your camera and your film and your light meter and to start creating work that you love with analog film. We're going to take the fear out of it. I know that it can be very scary to spend money on something that you just don't know if it'll turn out, but this workshop will help you feel confident in shooting film and feeling really good about your abilities with it. We also will be going over creative techniques.

and we will have two stylized shoots. It's a really small group of whoever wants to come and it will be so much fun. I hope you can make it. The other thing is my film soup guide is up and available on my website. It's a quick online course with really easy digestible videos and a PDF of tons of recipes. So if you want to try film soup, you won't be worried that it's going to be absolutely ruined. If you follow my...

it will not be ruined, it will be turned out and it'll look amazing. So let's get to my five mistakes. So the first mistake that I made was not finalizing my style before I started taking on clients and charging. When you're a photographer, especially if you feel the art pull of photography, you wanna try so many different things and that's absolutely okay. I think that I...

5 mistakes (02:21.422)

diving into lots of different techniques and cameras and presets or what you're shooting styles, landscapes, portraits, food, boudoir, whatever, it's absolutely okay to do all of that. But once you start charging, you need to stick with it and not change. So I just kept trying to find that thing for me.

that I felt as an artist was worthy of charging people along the way. I don't know if that makes sense. So as I was upping my pricing, okay, also I need to take out the last couple of sentences. So as when I was charging clients, I wasn't quite there with my style. I wasn't feeling super comfortable or happy with the images. They were great images and my clients were happy, but I was always tweaking things just a little bit. And because of that,

I was being inconsistent with my work and therefore lost clients because of it. So if you are charging, stick with that style and what you put online on your website, that, so that way your clients know that that's what they're going to get. That was my number one mistake. My second mistake was incorporating programs and systems that were expensive, making things more complicated than they needed to be instead of saving me time. So for instance,

There are so many things out there that quote unquote save you time and yes they absolutely can be saving you time if that is what you're needing to incorporate into your business but it's really easy to listen to everybody and thinking oh yeah that's a great idea I should totally do that I should have all these systems in place so then when I do get busy enough I have all these systems and it will save me time.

When my business was smaller and I wasn't making as much money, it just was nonsensical to be paying for expensive CRMs, accounting, other things that just wasn't necessary. It was not necessary for my business, so it actually cost me more time and money than I had. And so that was a big mistake. I'm not saying that these are not good things. They are absolutely good things.

5 mistakes (04:43.054)

If you're in your business that you're so, so busy, you know, with certain things that you need to create systems to simplify it. But when you're starting out, there are other ways to do the exact same thing for free and not cost you as much. The other thing that I did that was a mistake, number three, that was number two. Number three is, this is gonna be unpopular and I may make people really mad by saying this.

but paying for branding.

Okay, I don't know how to say this without making people upset because I have brand friends that that's what they do and what they do is amazing.

But I didn't need to pay for branding. For my work, for my business, I don't feel, this is so gonna be unpopular, I don't feel that branding is important. It just isn't. Picking your colors, picking your logo, picking your fonts and whatever is not as important as being consistent with that branding throughout time.

So again, with my style not being consistent for my clients, the same thing with branding. If you choose something, whatever colors, it's not going to make or break your clients coming to you and paying. What will make and break with branding is constantly changing your colors and your logo and your fonts and all the things. They want to, it takes time for people to make a sale with you.

5 mistakes (06:18.798)

They need to see you multiple, multiple times. It's very rare that someone sees you and they're like, oh yeah, totally. I'm going to give you all this money. It takes time for you to build trust with that client and to build trust, you need to just stick with the same thing. You know, my clients may not love my colors, but they like my work. Like it's, that's not what is important here. What's important is the consistency and paying for branding. I just don't feel like is important. If you don't.

feel comfortable with all those things, by all means, pay for branding. But for me, it just wasn't a smart move at all. It felt like a waste of money and I'm gonna get a lot of flack for that, but that's okay. That was number three. Number four mistake was feeling like I needed a big social media following to be considered professional.

This is just dumb. This idea that we need to have this massive following to be considered a real photographer. You're a real photographer if you take pictures and you charge for it and people pay you. That is a real business. That is a real photographer. A real photographer is someone who takes pictures as a hobby and it makes them happy. That is a real photographer.

A real photographer, someone's gone into education, they have a college degree with it, or they don't have a college degree with it. Nothing, none of these things are, do you, says you have to have a massive social media following to be considered a real business. So I know people who are crushing it in the photography world, in the photography education world, who have a very small following, just like, you know, a couple thousand maybe.

and they're doing well. They're booking out all the time. They have, they have a steady flow of clients. They have this, you know, multiple income buckets for themselves and they're making generous amount of money each year with a small amount of followers online. And then I know other people who have tens of thousands of followers online who are not constantly booking, who do not have that consistency with their clientele.

5 mistakes (08:37.422)

Social media means nothing. It absolutely means nothing. If you aren't using it correctly, and I wasn't using it correctly, I was trying to chase followers to hopefully give myself this clout with clients. So then they would be like, oh, she's a somebody, I should work with her. Instead of using social media as a marketing strategy and a way to connect with clients, I don't need thousands of clients every year.

I can't handle thousands of clients every year. What you want to do is connect with those few clients that want to pay for you through Instagram or whatever social media you're doing, TikTok, Facebook, whatever. That is what you need to be doing on social media is marketing, consistent marketing and connection with your audience. That's way more important than numbers. All right, the last thing, and this is also gonna be highly unpopular,

is I charged too much. So I got some bad advice and was told this is the minimum you need to charge and I admired this person so much. They were so successful and I just was like, well, I don't know what the heck I'm doing. I will do that. So I charged too much. And yes, I did get a few clients who paid me at that much higher price point. And for some people, I'm not going to say what the price point is.

But for some, this is actually very middle of the road. But for me and my location, I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico. It's the poorest state in the country and people don't value photography and the people who do value photography don't have a lot of money. There's just no money here. And so I shot myself in the foot by charging too much instead of looking at the market, looking at my, what I, my, um,

What am I word I'm looking for? What it costs for me to do business and trying to trim the fat so that I could charge and actually get clients to come into me. So I know that there's so much, so much emotion around charging. So I want to say something that is important with when you're thinking about what you charge. You definitely need to be charging enough that you don't feel.

5 mistakes (11:04.174)

like you're being taken advantage of by your clients. Like you don't want to have that resistance or you know that feeling of not being valued by your clients. If you're in that price point, you definitely need to be charging above that. So you feel like it's worth it and people value you. But you also need to look at your market, your local market, unless you're a travel photographer, which you can totally do. But I think that's a totally different ball game here.

And as I wanna shoot locally in Albuquerque, that's where my business has been for the past seven years and I am now splitting my time between in San Diego. So it might be a totally different market out there. I just haven't been out there enough to know. So definitely look at your market when you are pricing yourself and then make sure you are delivering what you feel is of value with that price point. But when I started to charge way too much, which was this mass, I did.

this massive jump, I don't know how many, I think it was five times more, four times more than what I had been charging before. I lost all my clients, everyone. And it is taking me a long time, a couple years actually. I've had to lower my prices significantly. No, I did not go back to that very bottom price that I was at. But it's very close and I am starting to get clients again.

So that is the other thing that I did that was bad for my business. So there you are. There are my five things. I hope that you can take them and maybe if you are seeing that pinpoint within your business yourself that you can learn from me and stop doing these things immediately and change them because I want everyone to be successful. In the photography community, we are about support. In a...

If you are not finding that support, you need to find that support. Photographers, we need to support each other. Women especially, we need to support each other in this business. We need to be our own best advocates and advocate for each other. So that's it. A short and sweet podcast today. One last thing before I go. If you do like the Photographers Create podcast, would you please leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. That would mean the world to me.

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It would help other people find this podcast who are photographers or creatives and get in front of more people so we can share this photography community and education with each other. So thank you so much for being here everyone and have a wonderful week.

Hasselblad Ballet with David Teran

Summary

In this episode, David Teran discusses his journey from wanting to be a chef to becoming a photographer. He shares how he fell in love with film photography and his passion for capturing ballerinas outside of the ballet. David emphasizes the importance of the Hasselblad camera in his work and the focus on creating visually stunning photographs. He also highlights the unique experience of shooting film and the limited number of frames available. In this conversation, David discusses his approach to ballet photography and the challenges of capturing unique and memorable shots with limited frames. He explains his preference for shooting on film and the magic of not knowing the outcome until the film is developed. David also shares his favorite locations for ballet photography and his inspiration from non-ballet photographers. He mentions his upcoming book and hints at a potential second project. Lastly, he talks about his process of developing and digitizing film.

David Teran https://www.hasselbladballet.com/

David Teran (00:00.85)

David, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really excited to have you on. I actually have been following you for a long time. I don't know if you know this, but I've been following you for a really long time. And I sure you don't. I'm one of those like.

David (00:24.115)

I don't, but...

David (00:28.151)

Bye.

David Teran (00:28.97)

silent stalker types on Instagram sometimes. So yes, so it's really nice to finally meet you and have you on. So why don't we just jump into this? Why don't you tell everybody how you got into photography?

David (00:44.61)

So I, it's a funny question. I, getting out of high school, I wanted to be a chef. I saw the movie Ratatouille and I was like, that's what I wanna do for the rest of my life. And I applied to culinary school and my friend of mine said, hey, why don't you buy a camera to take pictures of your food? And I was like, okay, this is like 2008, so before Instagram for sure.

I don't know why he told me to take pictures of my food, but I bought a camera and at 18 years old, friends and girls asked me for pictures and I was like, yeah, I'll take your pictures. So it was just kind of a way for me to talk to people. Mainly pretty gross. I won't lie. And people started liking my pictures more than like my food.

And then so one day a friend of mine said, hey, I worked for this client of mine. He has a favor. Can you take pictures of a kid that he's, a musician, child prodigy, that he's trying to help get to Russia to study and do some Russian piano story. And I'm like, okay. I took some pictures of the kid and the client. To this day, he's my biggest client, but he's like a six-time Latin Grammy singer.

And he's like, Hey, David, I love your work. You should give up being a chef. Your pictures are gonna be seen around the world. And I'm like, what are you talking about? In my head, I'm like, I wanna be a chef. And he says, no, David, photography's your calling. And I'm like, whatever, man. I didn't really say that, but in my head, that's kind of the conversation I'm having. I'm like, this guy's crazy. I'm like, you know, my pictures are gonna be seen around the world. And sure enough, two years later, he hires me to photograph.

his then most recent album cover, and those pictures were seen in like 20 countries on billboards around the world. And so he kind of like fulfilled that prophecy. It was like a self-fulfilling prophecy that he did for me. That album ended up winning a Grammy, a Latin Grammy. So like those pictures were like, they for sure were seen all around the world. And then so, yeah, that's kind of how you got into photography. Or into photography, yeah.

David Teran (02:54.643)

Wow.

David Teran (03:00.254)

Are we allowed to know who this Grammy winner is?

David (03:02.77)

Yeah, his name is Marcos Witt. He's really big in the Latin Christian world. So like if in that world he's big, if you're not in that world, he's not big.

David Teran (03:13.59)

Oh, super cool. So that like, you after that experience, you're like, okay, this is what I'm supposed to be doing like, or were you like, still trying to balance the chef and the photos thing?

David (03:25.654)

Um, uh, life happened. And so I just kind of decided not to do go to the culinary route. Um, he, he was, he was a fan. He was like, if you want to do food, I will, uh, he, I remember he, once a year he'll go to Colorado and ski with like 30, 30 friends and he invited me through, through my friend, he invited me to cook for them. Like when I wanted to be a chef and I was like, you know, I don't, I don't want to do that. I'm not that good yet. Um.

And it's funny because now I hate cooking. I like eating food, but I hate cooking.

David Teran (04:03.102)

That really was your destiny to move away from culinary arts and get into the visual arts.

David (04:09.546)

Definitely Providence, definitely was out of there.

David Teran (04:12.062)

So jumping from taking pictures of a Latin artist to ballerinas, what is, and then on it, did you start with digital, like, did you start with film or digital because you're shooting film now? Like, how did you get to that?

David (04:24.998)

Yeah, I started digital. And then I remember it was like Valentine's Day of 2014, 2014 or 2015, one of those years, a friend of mine was like, David, you have to try film. And I'm like, film's lame. Why would I want to shoot film? This is 2014. I'm like, I don't have no desire to shoot film. He's like, I'm begging you, just try my camera. And it was a Mamiya RB67, so it's big, big format.

medium format, but a big negative. And one look through that waist level viewfinder and I fell in love instantly. Like the way the image pops, 3D image, it was a bit of me. So that was kind of, that was kind of it. I just, that was probably six, seven years into my career already. So no, I started digital and then the film came out of that. And then I just fell in love. So film just became my hobby.

And to this day, it's still a hobby. I rarely do work per se, per se. I don't like clients hiring me on film. I shoot all my client work digital.

David Teran (05:34.586)

Interesting. So what is your clientele? Because what I see is the, you know, the ballerinas that you do and that sounds like that's your personal work. So what do you do for work?

David (05:46.346)

So going back to the beginning where you said you haven't followed me for a while, I laughed because I have like six Instagram accounts and I just, I don't handle them well. They're all for different projects, all photo projects. One of them is like a food project. It's not a food project, it's David eats good food. This is not a plug, but it's my way of kind of connecting my food passion with photography. But they're just cell phone pictures. I just snap the food that I eat because I get to look.

David Teran (05:57.531)

Yeah, same.

David (06:14.234)

My work does get to take me around the world, so I do get to eat a lot of cool places. Anyways, my day job is, I'm a portrait photographer, so I photograph people. I live here in San Antonio, Texas, and I just, I photograph people for a living, so like this morning I had a couple magazines, local magazines that I did portraits for.

David Teran (06:34.406)

Very cool. And you said it takes you all around the world.

David (06:37.446)

The ballet project does. My commercial portraiture work as well, which is kind of like this Latin musician that does take me to Latin America. And that's kind of actually how this ballet project started.

David Teran (06:39.154)

Okay.

David Teran (06:52.574)

Okay, so tell us how this ballet project started since we're already there in this story.

David (06:56.806)

So, Mark Walswitt is, he's been around in his world for 35, 40 years. He's kind of like the top dog. To get to start photographing him, it was just a matter of trickling down now and photographing other artists who are in the same industry, same world, but just not as well known as him. And so, through that world, through that family tree, I photographed, I got to meet another artist who said, it was October 2017.

she asked me to go photograph her in Argentina for her album cover, Buenos Aires Argentina. And I had actually been to Buenos Aires like three or four times. And I guess everything does go back to food because Buenos Aires for me has like the best pizza in the world, hands down the best pizza I've ever had in the world. So if you ever get a chance to go to Buenos Aires, best pizza ever. So I had been to Buenos Aires actually with Marcus Witt twice.

David Teran (07:43.912)

Okay.

David Teran (07:49.398)

Noted.

David (07:54.238)

And this artist, her name's Christine Declavio, she said, hey David, will you come to Argentina and photograph my outfit for me? I said, sure. She's an American, but she was doing a live cover in Argentina. And I was like, sure, let's do this. We talked in October 2017, but the photo shoot was not gonna be until March 2018. Actually, about six, a little more than six years to the day.

like about six years and one week to the day when I was in Argentina. And I remember getting off the phone call, we ironed out the details, and like a week later I came across this Vogue article of this ballerina, this world famous ballerina. I didn't know who she was, but she was talking about her experience in Argentina. She had just guest starred at the ballet in Argentina and she was just talking about her experience. And so what drew me to the article

David Teran (08:28.222)

Okay.

David (08:53.174)

was not the ballet, but the Buenos Aires, Argentina part. I was like, oh, that's, I'm just going down there. I've been there, let me click on this link. And I, going through the link, I'm like, I've been there, I've eaten there, I've eaten there, I've been there, I've been to all these places. It was like a photo blog. And at the end of the article, she posts, she mentions a ballerina, a local ballerina that she became friends with. And I'm like.

maybe I should reach out to her, I'll be there in half a year, maybe I should reach out to her and see if she'd be willing to shoot. And so I reached out to that ballerina, I was like, hey, would you like to take pictures? I've never photographed a ballerina, but it'd be kind of fun. I was like, sure, if I'm available, let's do it. And so film was still very much a hobby. I had just bought a Hasselblad that was kind of like my dream camera.

I went on one road trip with the Mamiya RB6-F. I don't know if you know that camera or not, but it's just a massive, massive camera. I did one road trip and I'm like, this camera's too heavy. I don't want it. I gotta get something smaller. And so I gravitated towards the Hasselblad. I'm like, it's gonna be a little bit smaller. Negative, but it's fine. And so I asked her, hey, would you like to shoot on this hobby camera?

David Teran (09:51.653)

Mm-hmm.

David Teran (09:57.466)

Yes.

David (10:13.394)

I've never been photographed film. I mean she's probably I thought at the time that she was like 20 But turns out she was about 30 looks Much much younger than she is, but she had never shot on film and I started finding most Most ballerinas have never even shot on film. So that was kind of a way to approach them but So she's like if I'm available six months on the road I'm willing to shoot turns out the only day she was had available was the only day I had off

David Teran (10:24.039)

Okay.

David (10:42.21)

So it just kind of, again, serendipitous. Very much, very much providential.

David Teran (10:46.626)

Yeah. So what drew you to ballerinas? You said you saw it in vogue, but like, what was that spark of, I want to shoot ballerinas?

David (10:55.954)

I um, so this photo shoot just happened. It was like the most perfect, it was like the most beautiful day. It was March, March 4th, 2018. It was a Sunday. It was, it was their fall, so it was probably like 68 degrees, 70 degrees. It was empty streets, sunny, beautiful. Like they call Buenos Aires the Latin Paris.

or the Paris in South America. So I was just like, I loved the architecture of the street. I loved everything about it. The way the ballerina and her mother, like her mother accompanied her on the shoot and the way they treated me was just like, in a non-romantic way, I fell in love with everything. And I always say like, had I been with any other ballerina where they just like, okay, this is very transactional, it's like we just get done. I probably wouldn't have fallen in love. And I didn't fall in love with her at all.

David Teran (11:29.714)

Mm-hmm.

David (11:50.986)

It was just like the way she treated me. Like she brought me chocolate and she took me to lunch afterwards. And it was just like, everything fell into place. And so she's like, hey, I've been following you since you reached out to me in October of last year. And I see you travel a lot. You should reach out to Ballerina in every city that you visit. I'm like, okay. And I had no attraction to this. I'm struggling. I'm fine. I have an internal dialogue deciding if I should tell you what I'd like to tell you, but I might as well tell you.

I actually don't like the ballet. I have a running joke that I fall asleep at the ballet in Four Continents. I just... Ballet is not my thing. It's definitely a much different cultural tier of different... It's not how I grew up. I grew up very much middle class and I think ballet is upper class. So I have no attraction to it. I love photographing from the wings. But going to the ballet is not...

David Teran (12:35.036)

It is.

David Teran (12:41.458)

Yeah.

David (12:48.794)

Okay, I live for that, I love that. But now photographing ballerinas outside a ballet, that's very much enjoyable. Hey, pause, is it okay if I walk? I'm actually outside and it's chilly, so I'm just gonna walk to my car. We can continue the conversation, is that okay? Or would you rather just me wait till I get to my car? It's getting like a three minute walk. We can finish.

David Teran (12:57.636)

Bye.

David Teran (13:02.01)

Yeah. Yeah, it's totally fine.

David Teran (13:08.562)

You're good. Go ahead. You can just go walk, and we'll see how it goes.

David (13:12.146)

Okay, alright. Okay, well, so that's kind of where I'm at now.

David Teran (13:17.635)

So like when you photograph, so you said that, you know, being Argentina, right, that you were in Argentina, that it was the architecture you really liked. And I feel like, you know, looking at your work, you definitely incorporate architecture. And then ballerinas are so figurative, like it, they play off of each other, those lines of the architecture and then the ballerina lines.

David (13:25.952)

Uh-huh.

David Teran (13:43.658)

Is that kind of what also part of the magic for you of doing this project?

David (13:49.442)

Um, I, for me, the magic is, is the Hasselblad, the name of the project is Hasselblad Ballet. And it just happens to me that Hasselblad comes first. But for me, the approach is definitely, the emphasis is on Hasselblad. I want to, I want to always make sure that like the photography comes first. I want, I want to honor the ballet, that's for sure. But the ballet technique comes secondary to how can I make a cool photograph? And so...

David Teran (13:55.646)

Mm-hmm.

David Teran (14:03.568)

Okay.

David Teran (14:09.991)

Mm-hmm.

David Teran (14:15.889)

Mm-hmm.

David (14:16.658)

Yeah, the lines. I mean, I don't know if you have ballet experience at all, but you mentioned the lines of the ballerina. There's a section in my book called Lines on Lines, and it's a play on that. That's like my architectural, where it's like, okay, I have zero architectural background, but I do love, you know, good lines. And so, yeah, it's a play on that.

David Teran (14:39.486)

Okay, so you're saying the Hasselblad is the magic for you. So tell me more about Hasselblad magic.

David (14:46.466)

I mean, just the experience, like, that I travel across the world. So I traveled to Argentina, I took one roll of film and I took 12 pictures. Versus like when you shoot digital, you can have unlimited exposure. It's not like a downplay of digital at all. It's just there's something special when you know you only have 12 frames.

David Teran (14:54.386)

Mm-hmm.

David Teran (15:04.75)

Yeah, yeah, no, I totally get it. I'm a film shooter too. And it was the same for me. Like as soon as I took a picture on film, again, it had been a very long time since I had taken a picture on film. And it was that magic. And then also creating that presence and having to be very present with your moment. And do I want to have this as a picture versus digital? Yes, it's like so, so much.

but film creates that slower art and yeah, for sure. And digital's great. Digital is fantastic. It can do so many things, but for film shooting, especially for my personal stuff, I love shooting on film.

David (15:38.254)

Sure.

David (15:52.042)

Yes, it's just that you only have 12 clicks and there's no like, let's redo it. Um, like if you look at a contact sheet, it's not like I have 12 of the same things, I have 12 different unique poses. And so I think that was kind of the fun challenge of making 12 photos that are great, that are unique and that just can't be, you can never redo it again. You can take the same, take it again, but like it'll never be the same.

David Teran (16:07.695)

Right.

David Teran (16:14.696)

Mm-hmm.

David Teran (16:22.202)

Right, yeah, yeah. It does, the limit that like having some sort of limit on yourself, I feel like pushes your creative abilities. Like you have to definitely be sure of what you're shooting or feel it before you take that, you know, press the shutter and having that limit on yourself definitely adds to the magic of film, which sounds so backwards.

But it's very true.

David (16:54.194)

Yeah, um, and again, it's not discrediting digital, but like I have, I have ballet photographer friends who shoot hundreds and hundreds and even thousands of frames per photo shoot and they're like, how do you do it in 12 frames? I'm just like, I just forced myself to do it. Uh, when you know,

David Teran (16:58.012)

No.

David Teran (17:13.17)

So you only give yourself one roll of film per shoot, too? You're not doing multiple? Wow!

David (17:17.134)

Yeah, no, it's strictly like sometimes I'll shoot like I'll connect with the ballerina and this is like this sometimes is probably like less than 10 times out of three about 291 frames I shot in the project the project's done um but uh sometimes I'll shoot two frames two roles I'm sorry but by and by and large it's one it's one role

David Teran (17:38.682)

Mm-hmm.

David Teran (17:43.338)

That's crazy. What film do you use?

David (17:46.095)

HB5. Everything was shot on HB5.

David Teran (17:48.461)

That's a beautiful, beautiful film stock. I love that one.

David (17:51.606)

I love it. The first probably, I think 79 roles were metered at 400. I would shoot with the digital camera and kind of chimp and that's how I metered. And then I was taking a community darkening class and the instructor was like, David, don't do that. And he showed me how to use a meter, like a proper meter. He got me a, he told me what to buy. I bought a, it was a Pentax Spot Meter 5.

David Teran (18:15.471)

Night meter.

David Teran (18:20.807)

Okay.

David (18:22.106)

which is like, it has like the one degree, one degree spot meter. And then he's like, just get a gray card, meter off that. And then he told me something that changed my life. Cause I was, then I was metering at 400 and he's like, meter at 200 and you'll be happy. And I was like, no way. And I did, and like these negatives were incredible. Like they're just so much denser and thicker. So now across the board, everything I, I meter is at one stop overexposed.

David Teran (18:44.547)

Uh huh.

David Teran (18:50.254)

Yep, always. I love that. I love that trick too. So tell us about like where are some of your favorite places that you've gone? So this is going to be a book, audience, this is going to be a book comes out in May, right? That's so exciting.

David (19:03.546)

May 15th. Yeah, actually tomorrow. So today is March 18th. Tomorrow I get my first advance. And I'm so excited. So like I have I've seen the book and like Every like there's like multiple parts of the book and I've seen every part of the book in its final stage But I have not seen the whole book together Put together finished and tomorrow's I'll get to see that for the first time. So I'm excited

David Teran (19:22.855)

Uh-huh.

David Teran (19:27.838)

That is exciting. You'll have to give us a sneak peek on your Instagram stories. We'd love to see it. So tell us. Okay, good. Tell me like some of your favorite places besides Argentina that you have got shot at for this book.

David (19:33.042)

I'm sure I will.

David (19:42.994)

My favorite hands down would be Paris, New York City. New York City has a lot of a lot of good ballerinas. Cuba, the cover of the shoot of the book is actually from Cuba. But I would say probably my favorite would be Paris, hands down Paris.

David Teran (20:02.07)

Okay, that sounds like a no-brainer. I've never been, but...

David (20:03.966)

And it's that call back to Ratatouille, like where there's that whole, like Ratatouille kind of started my career in a very, in a direct way. I can see how you went from Ratatouille to photography and now to ballet photography. And I was actually talking with a friend. I do not want to ever be called a ballerina photographer or a dance photographer. I'm just a photographer that happens to photograph ballerinas.

David Teran (20:08.948)

No!

Yeah.

David (20:32.73)

Um, but paris definitely for sure would probably one of my favorites Uh all over the place, uh, louv, um One of my favorites was I can't i'm totally gonna butcher it tuliaris park tulia Tull I don't know, but that was one of my favorites right next to the louv. Um, it's beautiful park. I mean paris just has a ton of Beautiful park. So yeah

David Teran (20:35.686)

Where did you shoot in Paris?

David Teran (20:48.294)

I don't know French, so you're okay, but you're away.

David Teran (20:56.656)

Uh-huh.

David (21:01.142)

That was one of my favorite places.

David Teran (21:02.93)

So for your shoots and you know your location, do you like plan it out? Do you pick your location and pick your poses for your ballerinas and like have it all planned out? Or do you just like go off the cuff when you're there?

David (21:15.658)

Um, locations, I try to just Google locations and then try to go from there. Um, I do have my poses kind of an idea of my poses before I will start, uh, the shoot, um, which I'll discuss with like wardrobe and whatnot with the ballerinas that were kind of on the same page. Um, my inspiration totally comes from non ballet. I try to follow very few ballerina photographers. Um, cause I just don't.

David Teran (21:22.055)

Mm-hmm.

David Teran (21:30.045)

Mm-hmm.

David (21:45.178)

I try not to be influenced that way, but rather like, uh, I guess I follow fashion photographers. My favorite photographer would be, his name is Rodney Smith. He passed away about 10 years ago, a little less than 10 years ago. But when I came across his work, he just revolutionized how I look at photography and I mean, you can totally see his influence in a lot of my work.

David Teran (22:07.106)

Yes, you can. You absolutely can. It is very editorial. You're like fashion editorial-like and very Rodney at the same time. Like I love him too. He's fantastic. So what else should we ask? Is there anything else you want me to ask? Like, do you want me to ask more about the book? Do you want to?

David (22:26.437)

Whatever you want, whatever you want. I'm an open book, no pun intended.

David Teran (22:33.074)

No, I like it. So your book comes out in May. Is there do you have like another project coming in the works? Or is this like your first big one? It seems like it's taking you a lot of years to put it together.

David (22:46.846)

Yeah, so it's been six years now since I started this project. When I started, I didn't intend for it to be a book. It just kind of fell into place where it's like, okay, this can be a book. It's lived on Instagram its entire life. I do have a project, almost like a part two.

lined up. I put a lot of Easter eggs for this name for the second project throughout my book. I can count off my memory like four Easter eggs that just kind of point to... It's not official either. It's not like I will do for sure, but if the book does well, there's a good evolution progression, part two.

David Teran (23:18.296)

Okay.

David Teran (23:30.845)

Mm-hmm.

David Teran (23:38.302)

super cool. Is it related to the ballerina thing or is it? Okay.

David (23:41.894)

Yeah, yeah, it would still be valet and still be on film, but that's all I'll say for now.

David Teran (23:47.866)

Okay, let's go back to talking about Rodney. Like, so your work being influenced by it, I feel like his has this like fantasy, like a foot in fantasy and a foot in reality, and it has this like lightness and playfulness, but it's still in black, but it's in black and white, which tends to be more dramatic and grounding.

David (24:01.274)

Mm-hmm.

David (24:12.204)

Mm-hmm.

David Teran (24:12.994)

And I feel like you balance that same thing that he does. Like, is your commercial work similar to that? Or is this just like total play, creativity, opposite? Cause like for me, my client work is very different than my play work. So is your similar or different? Like how do you balance all of that and create that magic?

David (24:28.681)

Mm-hmm.

David (24:35.602)

My, my, it's definitely, they're not, there's no similarities at all. Like you see my, my ballet work and you see my commercial work, my portraiture, and they're not at all similar. Um, I shoot a lot of black and white in my, my commercial, my, my day-to-day portraiture, but there's no, there's no similarities. But today, this photo shoot I did this morning, I tried to like, incorporate some weirdness and I, and I explained to them why I wanted to do that. And they looked at me kind of weird.

David Teran (24:44.418)

Yeah.

David (25:04.206)

those two psychiatrists and they're like, okay. And I don't think the magazine will go that I was shooting for will go for it. And that's okay. But I did try to play, but no, they're very much two separate worlds. My film work and almost entirely my film work is ballet. I don't really don't shoot much outside of that anymore on film, on film. Cause I mean, I guess, honestly, you do get burnt out and I shot

David Teran (25:11.275)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

David Teran (25:17.532)

Yeah.

David Teran (25:26.874)

Okay.

David (25:34.77)

290 rolls over the last six years strictly for the ballet work so I mean I guess I got burnt out but it's been like almost a year since my last shoot and I'm kind of getting antsy now so we'll see

David Teran (25:49.602)

Yeah. So you don't like even shoot your travels on film like, because you're for your personal stuff.

David (25:55.947)

I have a Roli 35, so a small 35 millimeter camera that I'll take some pictures for fun. But just like digitizing that work, getting it from film onto computer or Instagram, it's just a chore. Like I'll do a roll and it's like 36 frames. This is way too much, this is too much work.

David Teran (25:59.451)

Mm-hmm.

David Teran (26:18.774)

It is. I feel like 36 is too much too. It's a lot.

David (26:22.714)

So so i'm just like I the uh, rolly there so I don't know if this is on brand or whatnot, but Ro, uh mint photography mint camera. They're they're like this camera that This camera maker that they remake polaroid cameras. I think something like that. I know I think i'm butchering what they do But they're about to re-release What's called a rolly 35 af? Which is I don't know if you know the rolly 35, but it's this really small 35 really

David Teran (26:47.355)

Okay.

David (26:51.574)

35 millimeter camera, but they're re-releasing it in partnership with Roli, and it's gonna be an autofocus camera. And I'm super, super excited because it's a brand new camera. They're not rebuilding old cameras. They're making a brand new camera, the exact same body. There's gonna be a couple different new features, like autofocus and the flash and something like that, but I'm really excited for that camera, and that'll probably make me shoot more personal stuff on film.

David Teran (27:20.702)

I'll have to look that up. I haven't heard of that one. That sounds awesome. It feels like because film has made such a comeback that some companies are starting to like very small, like with a small type of camera. I just saw that Kodak did 35, not 35, eight millimeter camera, but with a digital screen, which I thought was super cool to like marry that eight millimeter, you know, film video type of a thing for people because video is so big.

David (27:32.128)

Mm-hmm.

David (27:40.663)

Mm-hmm.

David Teran (27:50.446)

Like I think it's really cool that cameras are, I hope that cameras will still start making more instead of our ancient ones that we have to keep getting fixed and find and stuff like that. That'd be really fun.

David (27:50.912)

Mm-hmm.

David (28:02.798)

I mean, going back to the magic of film, for me, the magic is that you don't know what you get until, you know, a week later, three days later, a month later, depending how long the trip is, until you get to digitize that or develop the film and pull it out of the chemistry, and you don't know if you got the shot or not. And so that, that to me is the magic. Like, being able to see the image right away, there's just nothing... It's not very magical. And so, like...

David Teran (28:12.562)

Mm-hmm.

David Teran (28:19.42)

Yeah.

David (28:28.654)

I don't know. I'm not getting, I'm not old, but that's my old man rant. The... The magic of film is not knowing if you got the shot and... But being good at your craft and knowing that, okay, I anticipated that I'll get the shot, but maybe I didn't get the shot, maybe I didn't. And when you get the shot, the highs are very high, and when you miss it, the lows really hurt. But...

David Teran (28:35.194)

And I get it, so.

David Teran (28:47.409)

Yeah.

David (28:57.898)

That's part of the process and that's why I enjoy shooting film.

David Teran (28:59.486)

Absolutely.

Yeah. Do you develop it yourself? You're saying like, it's like hard to get it to digital.

David (29:05.685)

I do.

David (29:09.742)

I do, I develop and I guess digitize my film. I took apart an old, this was like during COVID, the community classes that I would take, they closed down. So I just kind of had to figure something out for myself. So they had a scanner and I used to scan all my stuff there. And so I was reading online and I heard that you can like digitize film. And this was like 2020, I guess.

David Teran (29:24.318)

Mm-hmm.

David (29:37.438)

it was February 2020 and I took apart an old and larger, put a ball head where the condenser is and then using the condenser I kind of built like a flash tube, put my Profoto strobe inside and I built some like, there's some mirrors inside of the condenser head that kind of like bounce the light around and then put the negative on top and then I photographed it with the macro camera.

David Teran (30:05.999)

Uh-huh. That's how I do it too. And I hate it. I hate the post-processing in any way, shape or form. I wanna just take the picture. I wanna be in the moment. I wanna create and I want someone else to develop it. You're amazing for doing that. Cause it is, that scares me still. I'm not good enough at it. Like I can do black and white pretty well, but color film, I'm just like, oh, I don't love this. It's hard.

David (30:06.414)

and

David (30:29.886)

I think I've shot like a thousand Black and White, a thousand rolls of Black and White films since I started and like I've shot like two color films, color rolls. I don't touch color. It's just, I don't touch it. I enjoy the Black and White. Yeah.

David Teran (30:41.498)

It's a different beast. Yeah, yeah, for sure. All right, well, thanks, David. I appreciate this. It's been so fun to talk to you. I'm super excited for your book and definitely show us a sneak peek on stories when you get your copy. And thank you so much for doing this.

David (30:56.047)

Yes, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

David Teran (30:58.826)

I am gonna stop it and we have to just wait.

Finding Your Style Creatively | Photographers Create Podcast

Summary

In this episode, the host discusses the process of finding one's personal style in photography. The conversation covers various aspects, including the challenges of comparison, looking beyond visuals, influences from home and personality, collecting images for reference, limiting equipment, working and practicing every day, keeping a journal, exploring different genres, and finding personal style with film photography. The host emphasizes the importance of authenticity and self-expression in creating a unique style. The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to leave reviews and consider being a guest on the podcast.

Takeaways

• Finding personal style in photography can be challenging, especially for beginners.

• Letting go of comparison and focusing on self-expression is crucial in finding personal style.

• Influences from home, personality, and other aspects of life can shape personal style.

• Creating references and limiting equipment can help in developing a consistent style.

• Working and practicing every day, keeping a journal, and exploring different genres are important steps in finding personal style.

• Film photography can offer a unique and authentic approach to personal style.

Chapters

00:00Introduction and Rebranding

00:29The Challenge of Finding Personal Style

01:22Letting Go of Comparison

03:19Influences from Home and Personality

05:14Collecting Images and Creating References

06:11Limiting Equipment

07:36Working and Practicing Every Day

10:30Keeping a Journal

12:47Exploring Different Genres

15:39Finding Personal Style with Film Photography

16:38Call to Action and Conclusion

Finding Your Personal Style (00:00.718)

Episode Transcripts

Hey everyone, welcome to the Photographers Create Podcast, formerly known as You Belong Podcast. Did a little rebranding, trying to find a way for people to find me a little bit easier. And I feel like changing the title of the podcast was the right choice to have it be a little bit more in line with what I am hoping to give to all of you listeners, which is for photographers and our creative side. So.

new branding, you belong is no longer. And it's now for talk first create. So today it's just me. I, today we're going to be talking about personal style, finding your personal style. This is a tough one. This is a hard one, especially if you are just starting out, you have no idea what to do. There are so many different options out there, niches and looks and equipment and the whole shipping it is can be very overwhelming and.

In this podcast, I want to simplify it down, give you some really actionable steps of how to find your personal style and hopefully cut through the crap and find your way. So let's start with why it's so hard to find your personal style. As photographers, we are very aesthetic. We want things to look a certain way. We're about the visuality of things and...

I think that's a detriment. We are looking at other people's work and what we're drawn to or what we feel like things should look like. It's all about this look. And because of that, it limits your ability to find your personal style. So we're gonna dive into things more than the way things look. And I wanna start off with, first of all, let go of comparison. It's really hard. We are all on social media. We all...

have other artists that we really admire and it's really hard to not compare ourselves to those people. But you got to do it. You've got to put your blinders on a little bit when you're finding your personal style and don't get too influenced by other photographers. And at the same time, you are getting influenced by photographers. It's just not possible to not be. Is that even correct to be able to say it that way? Did I do double negatives?

Finding Your Personal Style (02:20.142)

It's impossible to not be influenced by other photographers. And if you are feeling influenced, heavily influenced by certain photographers that you really, really, really, really love, and you're, but you don't want to copy them, just remember that there are no new ideas. There just aren't. Things are recycled and things will look different through your lens and through your mind, through what you, your composition and lighting and everything.

will be different. There's no way that you can completely copy other photographers. So let go of that. Let go of comparison and let's dive into how you can find your personal style. First of all, don't just look for photography. Like we said, start with yourself. What does your home look like? What do your clothes look like? What colors are you drawn to in that? So for instance, if my home,

You can see a little bit of the back there. I like things light and colorful. So my entire house is white. The entire walls are white. I love it because it's this blank canvas to be able to put color on top of. And I feel like that's the same with my photography. My photography is light, but it still has a ton of color. And that has influenced my photography a lot. The same with my clothes. I like things simple.

but still have a punch of color or a statement, but I don't like a ton of jewelry or things like that. So I feel like that has also influenced my photography. So how is that influencing yours? What is your house like? Is it dark, which is awesome? So are you drawn to more like shadows and less exposure in your work because your house is filled with awesome, like dark navy blues or dark greens or grays.

and things like that, or is it like mine light and bright? So that can influence your photography a lot in it being able to try to find your style. So start with yourself. The other thing is your personality. What is your personality like? Are you reserved and shy? So maybe your work needs to be similar to that. It doesn't need to be as loud or in your face about things because your personality is more shy.

Finding Your Personal Style (04:46.222)

or are you super fun and outgoing? I know photographers that they totally lean into that personality trait and continue that through their work. So they have a lot of playful families or couples or weddings that are just really fun and in the moment, or are you, because you're more reserved to you, do you think it's more posed and a little less chaotic, a little more controlled? So.

look to your personality style, look to your home, look to your clothes, look to your favorite colors, lean into you and start writing things down. Write things down with what those traits are of yourself and the things that you are because as an artist you can't mimic other people entirely. I mean you do it first for a while but you need to be able to

Get into yourself and create from a place of self or else it's not going to be authentic and it's not going to transcend into your, it's not going to get that connection with your audience unless you're being real. All right. So you've gathered these ideas of what you want your style to look like based off of you and your personality. Oh, I got it. It's just how I'm sitting. So the next thing is to start collecting images of your work.

that you are proud of and that you do like, and that do fit that mold, that different outline of ideas that you have come up with from looking at yourself, and start creating either a Pinterest board or collages in Canva or a file on your desktop, or maybe have them on your home screen all laid out to try to help give you a reference point for when you're shooting or when you're going to be doing a stylized shoot or...

prepping for a shoot or you're editing or whatever, have those images out that feel like that is those are on the right track. And the next thing you can do is go into other people's works for ideas. If you don't have that work that you've created yet, go in and try to find those images that really call out to you or touch you or are fitting into those.

Finding Your Personal Style (07:08.534)

personality traits and likes that you already have and start creating that pictures board or file or whatever you are doing to be able to reference it. That's a great jumping off point to stay consistent and to create work that's consistent. All right, now let's get into some like other actionable steps, limiting your equipment. Oh, as photographers, this is so hard.

There are so many amazing things out there. I mean, the new Fuji is coming out. And I'm not even like a big digital shooter, but it's like, oh, I love those Fujis and the way they look with their recipes and everything. That would be so much fun to have. Or I really want that new, you know, lens, 85 millimeter lens to get that really delicious Bokeh, you know, depth look. And there's so many awesome things out there that we could buy cameras and lenses and presets and.

filters and it just goes on and on and on and on and on because of that your style can be all over the map and the way to like narrow it down to try to find your personal style is limit your equipment. So the way that I like to do this is to what feels good to work with. My mom's an artist and she works with oil paint and she's done a lot of different art and created a lot of different art but

She is always, she only works with oil paints anymore and also on really big campuses. That's what feels the best to her. And what feels the best for me is film. I love film. I love my two cameras that I take with me on my shoots are my Pentax 645NI and then my Nikon F100 with a 50 millimeter lens. And oh, and on my Pentax is a 70 millimeter. So they're basically both 50 millimeter look lenses.

So they are very, they interact very much the same. And then also I'm a portrait 400 girl. Sometimes I'll use 800, sometimes I'll use 160, but I stick with portrait 400 to try to create that consistent look. And my style is the same. So find what is best for you, what equipment feels best in your hands, what feels best with your work that you are creating and the work that comes out of it.

Finding Your Personal Style (09:34.806)

Is it a specific preset? Is it a digital camera? Is it a film camera? Is it a DSLR or is it a mirrorless? Is it a 35 millimeter lens? A lot of people love 35 millimeter lenses and I don't. So it doesn't really matter what other people are doing. It's like what feels best to you. If you don't have a bunch of equipment to try out, you can rent equipment really easily.

and give it a go. You don't necessarily have to have like a stylized shoot to do this. You can just set up something or your family and just take pictures with your family. Trying different lighting scenarios, being able to get that work that you like with the equipment that you have and then sticking with that equipment, even though it's very tempting to keep buying more equipment and more cameras. I am 100 % guilty of this. All right.

The next thing is work, work, work, work, have a goal to take pictures every single day. This is great when you're first starting out to be able to practice, but then also be able to find what you like and then be able to recreate it over and over and over again. So that is your signature style. You know, that's what you like to shoot that, you know, that's what you're willing to work with. And that's the.

work that you're going to be able to give clients or that your art is continually looking like that or whatever. Shoot every single day and then also keep a journal. So I have a session journal and this is either for personal work or client work. I go in with ideas that I have first and I write them down and then I do the shoot and then afterwards I write down what worked.

what didn't, what I liked, what didn't I like, then when I get my images back, I will also go back into the journal and say what worked and what didn't work. This is a great way for me to keep track of what I am wanting to create and then also being able to recreate it over and over again and learning. We all are learning. We're all on this journey and it's totally okay to like have ebbs and flows.

Finding Your Personal Style (11:51.662)

but to stay with what is authentically you and what you're trying to create. Let me think, what else? Personal style wise, I think that's it. So this was a short and sweet today, guys. If you have any questions, you can definitely leave them in the comments about how to find your personal style. If you have any tips for...

our listeners also comment. I am definitely not an expert in everything and I'm happy to admit that, but this is a specific journey. And for some people, they nail it really early on. They nail exactly what they want to create. They're able to recreate it over and over again. And then they just bust out of the gate with that style and they just are killer at it. And for other people, myself included, it takes a long time.

like years and years, which just sucks. But once you hit that and you find it and it just feels right, you know you've hit your personal style. One other thing, oh, let me back up. One other thing to add to being able to find your personal style is genre. There are so many things that you can do in photography, landscape photography, macro, family, weddings, elopements, newborns, maternity, documentary.

studio, natural lighting, artificial light. Like there are so, so, so, so, so many genres and niches that you can do with photography and being able to find your style. Um, you need to try different things for that. So for instance, when I first started out, I wanted to do weddings. I liked weddings the best. I liked working with people who wanted to follow my directions and I love love like,

is my jam. I just love that connection between spouses and partners and I just wanted to capture that and so I started out with weddings but families just kept coming to me and so I had to keep and I was just starting out so and I wasn't quite exactly sure I didn't quite have my style down or my niche down so I kept doing families and that makes a lot of sense I'm in that stage of my life my kids are

Finding Your Personal Style (14:12.512)

And older I've been doing, I know a lot of families, so they were hiring me. And the more families I did, the more I fell in love with doing family client work and just appreciating the family unit and how influential it is in everybody's lives and how it becomes who we are, this family background and how we're raised with our ethics and our values and what we're exposed to and our influences. So I...

didn't start out with my niche. I didn't also didn't start out with a film as my niche. I started out with digital like everybody else did, you know, years and years and years ago. And it just never felt good. I never liked it. I'll be freaking honest with you. I bought so many stupid presets trying to find this editing style I want to do because I would edit and I didn't like it. And I would try some, and I was like, well, so -and -so's work is fantastic. Sure. I'll give it a shot with their present.

I mean, I tried everything and I just hated it all. It just felt terrible until I was at Photo Native and I was put, given a film camera in my hand by Richard Photo Lab and I took a bunch of pictures in Santa Barbara and I knew I had found it. I sucked terribly when I first started, but I knew that that's what I wanted to do and I worked my butt.

off to create really consistent beautiful film work for myself and for my clients. So yeah, that was my finding your style journey. I hope that was helpful for you guys. I hope this little tiny podcast is beneficial to you. If it is, I would love for you to leave a review so more people can find this podcast and leave a review on Apple podcasts or Google or Spotify or wherever you find your podcasts.

and also shared on Instagram. If you've liked this episode, just do a direct share to your stories. I would absolutely be so appreciated if you did that. And then also, if you would like to be a guest on the podcast, you can head to the website. It's allisonhatch .allisonhatchphoto .com backslash photographers dash create. And you can send me a

Finding Your Personal Style (16:38.35)

There's a quick little forum and you can send me your ideas for what you would like to do on the podcast in your end speaking. I would love to have you. I love meeting new photographers, learning about their journey and their work. And that's what this podcast is all about. It's just sharing each other's joy for this art medium. All right, everyone. Thank you so much. I hope you have a fantastic day. Bye.

Episode 16: Finding Balance in Creative Photography with Cami Turpin | Photographers Create Podcast

Summary

In this conversation, Alison and Cami discuss the balance between art and science in photography, the pressure to stay on brand, and the fear of trying new things. They emphasize the importance of embracing failure, letting go of control, and trusting the creative process. They also discuss the need for patience and self-acceptance in the journey of creativity. Overall, the conversation highlights the power of social media in providing validation and support, as well as the importance of finding balance in both photography and life. In this conversation, Alison Hatch and Cami Turpin discuss the importance of mental health, the stigma and misconceptions surrounding it, and the available support and resources. They emphasize the need for open conversations and understanding to create a supportive environment for those struggling with mental health issues. The conversation concludes with gratitude and appreciation for the opportunity to discuss this important topic.

Takeaways

Embrace failure and view it as a stepping stone towards growth and innovation.

Let go of the fear of trying new things and trust the creative process.

Find balance between personal work and business, allowing space for creativity and experimentation.

Don't be afraid to break free from the constraints of a brand and explore different tools and techniques in photography.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Cami's New Camera

02:15 The Power of Social Media and Validation

03:51 The Expensive Nature of Photography

06:30 The Balance Between Art and Science in Photography

09:38 Finding Balance in Photography

12:48 The Importance of Balance in Life

18:25 The Pressure to Stay on Brand

23:46 Letting Go and Embracing Failure

28:30 The Need for Space and Trust in the Creative Process

34:33 The Fear of Trying New Things

37:46 Embracing Failure and Working Hard

38:56 The Importance of Patience and Self-Acceptance

10:00 The Importance of Mental Health

20:00 Stigma and Misconceptions

30:00 Support and Resources

40:00 Conclusion and Gratitude

Cami Turpin

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Alison Hatch (00:51)

go. Cami. so much for coming on. I am excited to talk to you It's been a while since we chatted and I love being in your creative energy I love it like you just lose creativity all the time So this is gonna be so much fun to talk with you all things

photography and creative everything. I just saw that you bought a big old ancient dinosaur of a camera. Yeah. Yes. And that looks like so much fun. Like just tell me what you're up to, my friend. Just tell us what you're doing.

Cami Turpin (01:17)

Yeah, large format camera. Yes.

Okay, let's see. I mean, it's funny that you bring up the large format camera. I actually bought it in the summer. I have had it for a really long time. I just barely took my first picture with it. So it is just such a bigger process than I ever expected it to be. You think you know a lot about photography and then you get into a different technology and you're like, oh, I actually know nothing. That's, you know, I really want.

Alison Hatch (01:54)

Yep, yep.

Cami Turpin (01:56)

I really love getting to know my cameras every time I get a new one and things like that, but this one just intimidated me so much. Every time I was like, today, today I'm going to take a picture. Then I'd find out I don't have half of the stuff I need. So then I would have to buy more things. I was like, film holders. I don't know why I thought, I don't know. There's just so, so much to learn. So that has been making me really excited. It was really amazing actually to just go through the process.

that day of finally taking a picture and deciding to develop it myself and scan it in myself and I didn't have everything I needed for that but I kind of did it anyway. Anyway the reason I'm bringing this up is I posted all my kind of journey just in my stories because I can't wait, you know, I can't wait to actually tell anybody anything. And the energy even that I just got from other people being excited about it with me was so amazing and it just

really...

drove me to even do more. And I know sometimes we really, we're kind of, you know, social media is hard and it can also be really rewarding. And I know we think, you know, don't ever get any kind of outside, you know, don't let outside validation really cause, or I don't know, deter you from creating in any way, but it also can be just this energy booster. It wasn't.

that I got a million likes or it wasn't anything like that, but just that I got to have the conversation with people who were just as excited. That was amazing. And I'm grateful for social media for that reason. Yeah, that was kind of a long spiel about that, but there you go. I've been excited about it.

Alison Hatch (03:36)

it? Well, first of all, I have never touched large format. Like that scares me to death. I don't know why. And maybe it's just like you, like I didn't have this and I didn't I didn't know I needed this. And you know what I mean? Like, but the picture. Oh my gosh. It was. It's lovely. It's absolutely lovely. Please put it in your feed there forever.

Cami Turpin (03:40)

Ha ha!

Yeah, it's... Thank you.

Alison Hatch (04:04)

Cause it was just, I don't know if you put it in your feed yet, cause I saw it on stories, but it needs to be in your feed for ever and ever. Cause it's just gorgeous. You have, I don't know if you guys know Cammie or follow her, but she has a fantastic teenage daughter that will let her mom take pictures whenever she wants of her. And it, it's, she's like your muse, I think. She's just always been your muse. And it was a beautiful, beautiful picture. It was just

gorgeous.

Cami Turpin (04:31)

Thank you. The reason I haven't put it in my feed yet is because the day I developed it, I had posted a Polaroid of the exact same thing that I just took after I took the large format. I was like, this is too pretty. I need to take a Polaroid. So at least I have it in case something happens to this. And I love the Polaroid too. It's really pretty. And so I just am like, well, now it has to wait for a little while. So I just couldn't, I told you, I'm very, couldn't wait.

Alison Hatch (04:49)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, no, and you developed it yourself. I think side by side would be a really cool comparison though. But I get it. I get you're like my feed has to look a certain way and we're all like that. But you developed it yourself.

Cami Turpin (05:01)

to put them together.

Yes.

Yes. Yeah.

Well, it was mostly just that I posted it before. Yeah. Yes, I've done a lot of developing myself. I've done a lot of developing for myself just for 35 millimeter and 120 film, medium format film. But the reason this one took me so long is I needed a completely new tank. I was planning on just taking it to the find lab because they do a great job and most of my film goes to the find lab. But...

Alison Hatch (05:16)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Cami Turpin (05:40)

because I get to drive to them. It's very nice. That saves me some money. But I found out it was $8 to develop and $20 to scan. So we're talking about $28 per shot to take it to a lab. And I want this to be sustainable. I want to be able to do it. It's so expensive. So I just thought, I'm going to have to figure this out for myself so that I feel free to just do it as much as I want. Now.

Alison Hatch (05:57)

Yeah, Mercy, yes!

Cami Turpin (06:08)

I spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars just getting the equipment that I need. So it'll take me a while to actually catch up to how much I would have spent at the fine block. But that's okay. This is, you know, I think of this as an investment.

Alison Hatch (06:21)

If anybody, no one has ever said that photography is a cheap thing. I don't care if you shoot film or digital. And my friend, it's expensive all the way around. No matter where you're going with it, it is a very expensive. Maybe it's not cars or horses expensive, but it's expensive. So I did the same thing. I was like, oh, go ahead.

Cami Turpin (06:25)

No.

It absolutely was.

Right. Well then.

Oh, I was just gonna say, it's, you know, I say this a lot to my friends and to, I teach a workshop and I say this to my workshop people because we feel a lot of guilt, I think, about spending money on this thing, especially if it's a hobby. I do this for a business, but not with large format, obviously. So the thing is, like, when we spend a lot of money on our hobbies, I think, well, if I were in a pottery class and I was spending the money on that, would I

have the same sort of guilt?

If my husband buys himself a new TV and a game system, is he saying, how can I make money on this? Of course not. We are allowed to spend money on our hobbies and the things that we care about. So it really, I mean, I have turned a big corner there and yet at the same time, oh, it feels hard for every shot being that much. I can't spend $40 a shot. So developing myself it is.

Alison Hatch (07:26)

Good.

It's definitely gonna make you, yes, it's definitely gonna make you think about it before you press that shutter, when you already had that for film anyway, but you're like, okay, it's gotta, that might be hard. Like, that might be too much pressure, Cammie. Yikes.

Cami Turpin (07:44)

Yeah. Really slow.

I mean, this is the thing, it's really scary. I think this is why it took me six months. And I say it was scary and I'm like super anti-fear in creativity altogether, but still, I am, I'm a huge evangelist for letting go of fear, but I just feel like pushing that first picture, it had so, pushing the shutter for the first time, it felt so heavy, like you get one chance here. There's no sketch images, there's no like,

Alison Hatch (08:00)

Yes, you are. Yes.

Cami Turpin (08:19)

Oh, let me take a few and get into the groove. It was like, this is, this is going to be a shock. This, this has to be it. And there is a lot, there's going to be a different kind of picture that I take with that large format. You know what I mean? And I find that with every camera, there's a different kind of picture that I take. I mean, I, I also equally love, I don't know if equally, but I have a lot of toy cameras. So, you know, cameras that cost 10 to 40 dollars and I have zero control over theirs.

Alison Hatch (08:32)

Yeah.

Cami Turpin (08:49)

those. And so I find that yes, there's a different kind of picture I take with that, and I love them just as much. So I'm also about using the tools that are right for what you're trying to create. So I am not trying to recreate the things that I do with 35 millimeter or that I do with 120 on the large format. It's going to be a different kind of picture. And the reason I bought it in the first place was to eventually do tin types and wet plates.

Alison Hatch (09:03)

Yes.

Cami Turpin (09:19)

photography. So this is why I'm very excited because I feel like I'm drawn really, really into the tactile right now. That's I want and this is why I also developed. I want to have that experience of actually being with the film and really being invested in the process and all of that. It's a much slower process, but I feel like it's worth it. It took me all day to do that one photo, but I got so energized by that day and it was amazing.

Alison Hatch (09:20)

Uh huh, yes.

Okay.

Yeah. Well, that's what creativity is supposed to do for us. We're like tapping into that energy that the universe has. It's floating around, right? And we're all just as creatives trying to tap into that. So when you, and when you find it, it's such a drug. You're like, ooh, I need more of this. I need more of this. And how can I tap into it? And you're doing it through your different cameras and following where you need to go

tactile. I mean,

wet plate and tintype. Oh baby, that sounds so, so good. So good and so freaking scary to me at the same time because the stakes, yeah, get bigger, higher and higher and higher. And it's harder and harder to make the image and more and more and more expensive. And gosh, you got to become a chemist basically, Cammie.

Cami Turpin (10:39)

I know, and I think the chemistry actually was maybe the scariest part for me, starting even developing. I have a friend, Annamette Kaaf, she's in the photography world and I'm like, sometimes she takes pictures. Anyway, she came over to my house with all of her chemistry and everything and helped me develop the first role. And she's actually a chemist. She teaches, she's a chemistry professor at our local college.

I was like, yes, then I can kind of, and then I just saw her do it, and it's just measuring and pouring stuff, and it's not that scary. But you really do get super kind of stuck in your head about like, this isn't something that I do. I'm an artist, I'm not a chemist, I can't do this, but you know, I also really love a formula. Like I loved math as far as like, you know, algebra and things like that, because if somebody can give me something that says, do this, and I just get to do an order that makes me feel like,

Alison Hatch (11:12)

Yeah.

Cami Turpin (11:35)

sense of order. And so that's, I feel like that scientific part of photography, sometimes we ignore it, but it really balances out the sort of, I mean, and I'm talking even digital photography. We're doing a lot of math. We are, we are figuring out how compression works on different kinds of lenses. This is all science. And the more we know about that, the more we can use those creative tools. And I just think that's so cool that this is such a...

Alison Hatch (11:42)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Cami Turpin (12:04)

I don't know, right and left sided brain sort of moment. This is, this kind of art is so balanced and I'm like super into really getting kind of both sides of things and having that balance. And that's, I guess why I'm fine with a really cheap toy camera and also a really technologically advanced camera or a really old camera that's complicated. Cause I feel like that balances everything out, you know?

Alison Hatch (12:30)

Yeah.

So cool. I haven't thought about that. I have never had this thought, Cami. That's very profound to me that photography is a balance between the artist, the artistic side and the scientific side, because it is very true, especially when you're first learning. It's like aperture and ISO and numbers and numbers and measurements and all these things. And, and yeah. So how let's can we like just

take a little like detour over here. Balance, let's talk about balance. So if you're saying that you're like really into this balancing thing, tell me more. Tell me more about it. Like you have all of your different cameras that do different things for you, which I get as a film photographer, I think in the digital world, it's lenses and other things and you know, programs and whatever, which is awesome. But how are you, where are you finding this balance?

Cami Turpin (13:03)

Yeah. Let's do it. Thanks.

Alison Hatch (13:26)

Like tell me more.

Cami Turpin (13:28)

So I actually wrote a lot about this morning. In my, I do morning pages for anybody who does the artist way. And anyway, I feel like there's a balance in so many different places and we have to find it in all these different ways. One of the big ways that I first found balance in photography is personal work versus business. Sorry, that took me a minute to figure out money. The money part.

Alison Hatch (13:34)

Yeah.

Cami Turpin (13:58)

and the just art part, the part that is just for you. That was a big, it took me a long time to balance that out because I know especially if you're a family photographer, there's so much of it that we kind of shoot for ourselves. And then we expect our business to somehow fulfill the artistic side of ourselves. And sometimes it just can't. And we have to be able to sort of separate that or else we get too invested and we get burned out.

if that makes any kind of sense. That's what I have found. So in order to balance that portion out, I kind of quit taking clients altogether and I only do school portrait photography for money. And I also teach. So there is that aspect, which is a huge piece of it for me, but the things that I do for money do not kind of enter into my creative space. And that helped me specifically just because I really did. I kept getting caught up.

in this sort of like, I want this one thing to do everything. And it was too much. I got, I got burned out immediately. All of these negative emotions were getting pulled into my business that didn't need to be there. And then, and then into my personal work, which didn't need to be there. And it was just too much. So for me, this is the balance that I found all businesses, digital photography, school portraits. Nobody pays me anything unless they like their pictures. This feels very safe to me. Um,

So that's one way. But another way is I do a lot of really creative work that sometimes will take me, like I said, all day for one picture or sometimes a week for one picture, right, if I'm really digging in. But if I only did that, I would also, I think, burn out. So the toy camels, the play, the just I'm going to take this picture of my daughter playing the piano or.

Alison Hatch (15:44)

How interesting.

Cami Turpin (15:51)

My other one like up on the, you know, playing with her color-guarded flag outside. I'm gonna take all of those pictures, the cat in the window, whatever. If I have an inkling to take a picture, if I see something's beautiful, the millionth picture I take of the sunrise outside, I'm not gonna question it. I'm just gonna let myself play. I say to people, you know, when they say, I wish I could be... I just don't... I can't plan out every shot the way you do. And I'm going...

How long has it been since I posted or even done really a picture that I really planned out? 99% of my shooting is just instinct fun play and That way I balance out those days when I'm spending all day being really creative really hands-on that kind of stuff so That that has to be a balance too. There has to be

There has to be all of this, but it doesn't balance in the way. This is what I wrote about this morning. It doesn't balance in the way that you would think where I say, I'm going to spend this many hours on this and I'm going to spend this many hours on this. The balance comes from just trusting the natural rhythms. I, I am kind of one of those people that will work really, really hard and they get totally burned out and watch TV for like a week straight. Right. And that may sound crazy, but at the same time, like, why, why am I not letting myself rest?

Why am I not letting myself just have those kind of periods of really intense work and then really intense rest? I think that is something that I should stop questioning instead, lean into. And so that's the kind of balance that I'm thinking about right now is not just making sure there's a pie chart and every, in fact, there's in my planner, there's a pie chart I'm supposed to fill out. What does your pie chart look like right now? And what is, what do you want it to look like? And I it's been sitting there empty for a month.

And I realized that's because none of it, it doesn't work that way. Sometimes it'll all be one thing and sometimes it'll all be the other. Or if I say, I have to balance out this much time with my family and this much time with my work and this much time with my creativity, it doesn't work that way either because so much of my creativity involves my family. And so, you know, it doesn't, there's no lines there. And so the balance is really about trust. It's just about listening to yourself, feeling those natural rhythms. And I'm getting...

better and better at that, but it's scary sometimes. You know, in this world of Instagram where we think we have to be constantly creating and having something new. It feels scary when you're like, well, it's been a year. I haven't really created anything I'm excited about, but why not? You know, why not wait a year?

Alison Hatch (18:17)

Yeah, yeah.

No, I can see this. So after taking a couple of your classes, and especially in your PDF form, I can tell that you are just so, kind of analytical in a way of how you execute things. And I mean, it's so crammed with information and so thorough and amazing guys. If you haven't done anything with camera, you really definitely need to. But that you're needing to lean

into this.

flow, like whatever the flow is riding the wave of whatever needs to be is totally seems like on the opposite end of the spectrum for you naturally. But I get it. I totally get it. Like, but I never thought of balance and photography as like your creative, your creative side in your business side, because I have both. And my creativity last year, I was like, this is what I'm doing. My business sucks. Bye.

I totally just leaned into my creativity and made work for myself. And my business was in the toilet and I was okay with that. And now that this new year has come around, I'm like, okay, let's pick up the business again. And it's interesting these cycles that we go through as creatives. I grew up with a mom who's an artist and it's really easy to see her cycles.

of what she did and what she worked on and why she worked on it with this perspective. Her work changed and morphed over, you know, 30 years, 40 years, and it continues to do so. And she's so good at leaning into that. And I can see that in you too. Like what things you have worked on, what has really made you excited to do creatively. And it's changed over time. Like for a long time, you were into Polaroids and lots of emotions and all

awesome things you can do with Polaroids and it hasn't been coming around so much anymore. It hasn't!

Cami Turpin (22:09)

Oh, I see.

No, I still do it.

Alison Hatch (22:15)

That's okay! It's totally okay! I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to do this again.

Cami Turpin (22:16)

It is okay. I think when we get... Okay, it's all this fear versus love based stuff. That's why I keep kind of going back to this fear thing. If we feel like, oh no, I haven't done an Emulsion Lift for a long time, but I'm supposed to be known for Polaroids or whatever and there's that panic about it, then I'm not just following the idea that I've got that tool.

Alison Hatch (22:28)

Yeah.

Cami Turpin (22:42)

and I can pull it out when I need it. And now I'm ready to learn a new tool and I'll be able to pull that one out when I need it. We don't have to stick to one thing. It's the idea that we have to niche down that I think really gets us stuck. But if you look at the masters, if you look at people like Sally Mann or Irving Penn, they don't stick to one thing. They're just like, and this time, I'm gonna take pictures of cigarette butts or I'm gonna make weird still lifes that look like faces out of fruit or I'm gonna take pictures of.

like wet plate landscape, and then this whole thing where I'm gonna only do teenagers. They don't care about, there wasn't this idea that you have to be one thing, I think. And of course, there's a lot of privilege in that as well, I admit, like people who are extremely successful or independently wealthy or have all the time in the world may feel a little bit more relaxed about, oh, I get to do whatever I want to because there are really no consequences. But this...

is the, this is tricky. But even if you are doing it in a different space where you do have to make money or you are concerned about, um, some sort of, you know, growing your following for some reason or educating or whatever. And so you need to kind of make the space for yourself. Still, if we can get into that space where nothing we do is wasted.

You can completely fail at something and it will still move you forward. Fail, I hate even calling it fail. But you don't have to succeed at everything you try. If we can get there, we're going to make our best work. We're going to get the most connection with people. And it just really is this kind of scary place to be in if you have more consequences. But nonetheless, I think we have to get there. You know what I mean? Maybe I'm not explaining that very well, but I really do feel like, yes.

Alison Hatch (24:12)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Cami Turpin (24:36)

When you went back to, I'm very analytical, let me kind of explain that. When I'm writing a class, I have to go backwards through, how did I get here? How do I create, say, a really symbolic portrait? And then I have to say, OK, let me break it down into steps and have a formula. The formula is really nice for falling back on when you get stuck. But whenever I teach this, if I teach a formula,

Then I say, learn the formula, use it when it's helpful, and then the rest of it is just letting go. I feel like I'm an entire year or two of completely letting go. I really worked hard on these really specific things, and now I just have to say, I've learned that. It will come to me. It will come to me when I'm ready for it, if I'm just open to it. So really, it's true. This is a big part of the balance, is...

having this really analytical side where there's a step-by-step process and then saying, I've done that work, now I just have to let go and trust myself. And that is hard to do. This is one of the reasons I do so much experimental photography is to practice completely having no control, just letting completely go. And that really brings everything kind of back around.

And also I feel like there was a hard left there in what I was talking about. I don't remember where we started.

Alison Hatch (26:02)

No, you made total sense. You made total sense. Like we live in a world where as a creative, and if you're wanting or needing to make money off of your creative endeavors, you have to have a brand and you have to stay on brand. Oh my gosh, Cammie, I did that. And after I like did this branding, I was like, oh gosh, I hate this. I hate being in a box. I don't want to be in a box. I want to be able to make whatever freaking work.

Cami Turpin (26:14)

That was... Yes.

Alison Hatch (26:32)

I want to make and yes, it is a privileged, definitely if you were in that place where you can. And I'm grateful that I have the space to be able to do that. But then the same time I feel this pressure that my creativity needs to make money. You were saying like, you know, you spent all this money to develop your film with your large format camera, but, and so you feel like you need to be making money off of it somehow, but at the same time, why? Like you don't need to.

Cami Turpin (26:33)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Alison Hatch (27:01)

It's a hobby. You make money doing something else. You do school portraits. So it's this balance of, yeah, like where you are at the moment, where you feel like your creativity needs to take you and not being afraid to follow that instead of like, oh, no, I have to post it this way. It has to look this way and I have to make this kind of work because that's what I know for it. My clients expect this of me and blah, instead of following that

Cami Turpin (27:08)

guys.

Alison Hatch (27:27)

creativity flow wherever it needs to take you and the energy it needs to take you and not being scared of it. That's exactly what you said and it was beautiful. You did it very well. You did not take a hard left. It was great. Yes, we are.

Cami Turpin (27:35)

Okay. And I remember now where it came. Yes, because that's what it is. I'm like, I remember where it came from. But that really is it, is that we have to feel, it almost feels like doing the opposite of what we're supposed to do, but that's going to grow our business. I mean, I kind of joke that my brand, the brand that I get to lean into is like, try everything. Lucky me. I get to be a spaz for, you know, as my brand. But it really is kind of...

Alison Hatch (27:56)

Haha, yeah!

Cami Turpin (28:04)

I don't know. I read in Rick Rubin's book this morning, the creative act. Oh no, is that no way of being? Oh no, I have forgotten what it's called.

Alison Hatch (28:13)

It's called the creative act away of being because I just read it too. Yes, yes.

Cami Turpin (28:17)

Okay, so, and in it, he said he was talking about the chapter I read today was talking about the beginner's mind. And it was basically saying, if you can get into this space where you forget all of the rules you've learned, that's when you allow yourself to innovate. It's almost, you know, we kind of look down, I think sometimes, or at least I know people who do, I don't. Look down upon kind of beginners and say...

Oh, they're not quite doing it right. Or, you know, the camera bros, they'll be like, you're not using this tool correctly or whatever. But this is the space where we really innovate, where we really push boundaries because we don't know there are rules to break yet. And that's kind of the idea that I'm getting at is, you have to, it's really awesome if you know all the rules and all the technical stuff and all the chemistry and all the everything, because you can use it, but you have to somehow.

Get your mind out of that and say, but what else is possible? Like, what if I didn't care about any of that? What if I pushed this camera to its limits and just tried something that shouldn't work? It shouldn't work, but I'm gonna try it anyway. And you have to let go of all of this. This is gonna cost money. This is a lot of time and energy, and I may get absolutely nothing out of it. Because just the joy of trying it is enough.

but you still usually get somewhere else. And all of that creative energy goes into building your business or goes into helping you kind of let go in your, you know, in those other spaces. You know, there really is, it all kind of comes around. And it's hard to let ourselves get into that space, but it's imperative that we figure out how to do it, however we can. I mean, at least to me, because it's also a way of getting rid of that fear.

If we don't have to succeed, then what would we try? Like so many things, you know? It's kind of a really hard thing. So.

Alison Hatch (30:15)

Yeah.

love that. Yeah, it's an awesome mindset if you can get there. It's definitely something that takes practice. When I started doing my creative work and started working with Phil more and more, I had to be okay with failing. And in business, I learned I have to be okay with failing. And failing isn't a dirty word. Failing is a path. It's just another step

along the path.

of where you need to go. I feel like we're so scared of our failures and we hide them and embarrassed by them. And I don't think we should. And you're so good at posting stuff that does not turn out. And it's awesome. I love it. You are the queen of it. If you're like, I love this fail, it's awesome. And it looks so cool. And it's just, I love that you're willing to do that.

Cami Turpin (30:59)

Yeah, I love it. It's my favourite thing.

Well-

Yeah, and sometimes I do look cool. And sometimes I already look cool. You know what I mean? So the thing about it is this is another time when we have to be scientists instead of artists. Because in science, a failure is, like people get excited about failures. You know, they say, all right, I'm gonna try this. Okay, that didn't fail. Check that off. I mean, that failed, check it off. Like now I get to try the next thing. It is part of the process. You expect to fail in science.

Alison Hatch (31:18)

Yeah.

Oh.

Cami Turpin (31:42)

We do not expect to fail for some reason in photography. And not just any art is that way. It's photography specifically, I think. I mean, I may be kind of wrong, but I guess as a writer, because that's what I actually went to school for. But as a writer, I expect to have rough drafts. I expect to work on something, one thing, for a long time, and get it a little bit better each time. Never be perfect, but it's gonna get a little bit better each time.

But for some reason in photography, because it's this one instantaneous thing, we think I have to do it one time

and I have to do it right this time. We don't allow ourselves the rough drafts. We don't realize. I mean, I think there used to be more. There used to be more of this that were allowed rough drafts, but for some reason digital photography for some reason makes it even more difficult to have rough drafts because you get immediate feedback. You expect, I don't know.

Maybe I'm thinking of that wrong, but I look at my old photography books and you see, like, they did a whole roll of film for one shot, you know? So they have...

Alison Hatch (32:40)

Noah.

Yeah, yeah. I totally agree with you. I feel like, yes, because things have started rolling so fast, right? Like our world has gotten faster and faster. You were talking about some of the photography greats. That was back in the day. That was back before digital. That was back before a fast, like instant culture and throw away culture. What am I trying to say? Yes, yes. And I think that...

Cami Turpin (33:08)

decades of work.

Alison Hatch (33:13)

we just move like that instead of having this space in between creating and finishing, right? Like there isn't as much space, it's so much smaller now. And in digital, yeah, it shows up faster, but I feel like.

Cami Turpin (33:26)

So that feeds into the faster approach, I guess. But you can be constantly creating. Yes, get it done. Post it this day. Like people who do 365 and they take a picture and they edit it and they post it that day. That feels completely unsustainable to me. Like, wow. I mean, if you do it on film. Yes, or self-portraits. This is another one. I could not take self-portraits until I was shooting film.

Alison Hatch (33:30)

Faster. Yes, get it done.

Yes!

I tried it. I lasted like a week. Nope, I hated it. It was awful. I need that. I need that space.

Cami Turpin (33:55)

because I had like a week before I saw it or more. And there's so much like, I don't know, we need that time to process. And I don't know, we are moving too quickly. We don't have a lot of time to linger. We don't let ourselves have space to just say, that was really hard work what I just did and now I need some time off. And I think I touched on this earlier. We get into a panic, like if I put down my camera, maybe I'll never pick it up again.

Alison Hatch (34:00)

Mm-hmm.

Cami Turpin (34:26)

And one of the things that I try to tell my students in my, I hate to call them students, the participants of my workshop are, is that who cares? If you, and this again, very scary. If you put down your camera and you never pick it up again, that means it's served its purpose. And you'll come back to it if you need it. And that is, it is scary when we put so much of ourselves into it, but I'm a huge reader.

I love reading and right now I don't read very much and I'm not in any kind of panic that I'm gonna somehow lose the ability to read or love it or any of those things. I know it'll come back or I crochet sometimes and I will crochet like a mad woman for like a year and a half and then I'll put it down and not pick it up again for five years. Never once have I said, oh no, if I put down this crochet hook, I will never pick it up again. They're just...

either it's social media or just the fast pace of everything, we really do feel like I have to stick with this one thing. I mean, I even look at my journals through the years, and the way that I have recorded my life or my feelings or anything like that, that has moved through like 10 iterations. And never once have I said, oh no, I'm not being consistent with the way that I'm journaling. I'm just using the tools that make sense. But because photography is so...

I think we just don't give ourselves that same grace period and that same rhythm. We don't trust that. But I mean, it really is kind of one of those things. You have to be willing to be able to say, if I put down my camera, I may never pick it up again and that will be okay. And if you can get to that space, that's one of the ways of banishing fear, I guess. That gets you to a better place to be able to create. So, again.

Alison Hatch (36:21)

Amen. You said it all. No, you said it so well. No, you did. Amen. Amen to all of things that you said because creativity is letting go. Film is letting go. The more you can let go. And I visualize it as partnering with the creative process and the creative energy and inviting in the unknown and letting go of control and just allowing

Cami Turpin (36:21)

That went all over. It makes sense to me.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Alison Hatch (36:49)

what the creative process needs to do through me and through my medium. And yes, if you have a business, and yes, if you're posting on social media, it puts this pressure on you to produce, produce. Like you've got to post this video times a day. You got to be seen. And we all want that feedback. I mean, you talked about it in the beginning, how you got such great feedback from your large format portrait of your daughter. And it was so energizing to you. And we love that community. And we want our work to be seen because we're proud of it.

And unfortunately, stinking social media is the way to do it anymore. And it just puts a lot of pressure on us. And if you can even let go of that, I mean, the sky's the limit with what you can create, the more you let go, the higher you can fly. Like and I you're definitely the person to do that because you've done so much of it. You've like not followed rules. You've broken all the like you've done all these different kinds of cameras, all these different kinds of film. You did family photography and I do school portraits for your business. Like you've done a lot of stuff, my friend.

Cami Turpin (37:32)

It's true.

Alison Hatch (37:48)

and you teach and like you do and but you're not scared. Like I can totally tell that you're not scared to try anything, which I love.

Cami Turpin (37:49)

Ha!

Yeah, I don't think I am. Like I said, I get nervous, I guess. I did get kind of intimidated. I'll put it that way by that large format camera. And the anything, anytime I try something new, I do get intimidated, but my curiosity and my excitement about the thing is so much greater than any amount of fear that I have. And that's really all that it has to be. It's kind of like you have to say to yourself,

you have to kind of change it in your mind and say, I'm going to give myself the gift of working really hard on this thing, rather than, oh, I'm going to have to work really hard on this thing. It really is just that little shift in your brain. And then it's like, sometimes when people are afraid of trying, so for example, um, what do you call it? Uh, blind doubles, you know, just take a bunch of pictures, reload your film, shoot over it. Who knows what's going to happen? I say like, how much is this going to be? 20 bucks?

take a $20 bill and like crumple it up and throw it in the garbage. Like, how did that feel? Is your life over? Like it's, how much are you willing to give? Maybe you just give yourself a budget. I love giving myself a budget. I love being able to say, like, I care this much about this thing. I am willing to spend this much money. I am willing to spend this much time because I'm excited to do this thing. And if I have that sort of contract in my head ahead of the game, then I don't, I stop thinking about it.

And I know that sounds, again, it's from a place of privilege that I could take a $20 bill and throw it away. But at the same time, if you have $20 that you could spend on whatever, on Netflix for two months, do you care enough to try this thing? I think it's really empowering to do that. Like, allow yourself, give yourself the gift of this experimentation. You know what I mean? It really, it really puts you into a new space. I feel like I had a thing.

Alison Hatch (39:49)

Yeah.

Cami Turpin (39:55)

I have all these, I should take notes while you're talking. Cause there was something you said. Ooh, I want to say that. And now I can't

remember. It'll come back.

Alison Hatch (40:04)

Well, this was awesome. This was so great. Like we started with like an actual tangible technical thing and like just like exploded into the creative process, which just makes me so freaking happy and excited. And now I wanna go try something new. Like, I don't know what yet, but try something new. I love it. Thank you so much.

Cami Turpin (40:10)

Bye.

Yeah, I should have said like the main thing, the main thing I want to say is just like, quit being scared of stuff because it's fun. You know, it's, it really is. I think I just, yes, play and love what you do and also work hard, but like give yourself that gift of working hard. Don't be afraid of it. Let it, let it in. You know what I'm saying? Let the failure in. It's always it's just the best, honestly. I know, I know it feels like that's the For sure.

Alison Hatch (40:26)

Yeah, we play.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love it. I know I seriously do because failure. I did a podcast a little while ago about failure because I was sitting in it. My friend, I was like just steeped in failure all over the place and it was a mindset like shift. I had to shift my mindset around what had happened and where I was and it like have it be my journey. Like this is my journey

Cami Turpin (40:56)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (41:11)

and I'm going to learn from it.

embrace what it gave to me because it did. It gave me things. It didn't, wasn't just all yucky. It was, it gave me a lot. Yeah. And like moving through it. And I just, I think we should talk about failure more. So thank you so much for this conversation about creativity and failure and fear. It was so wonderful.

Cami Turpin (41:31)

Absolutely. And patience. Patience. Everybody have patience with yourself and give yourself a big hug.

Alison Hatch (41:36)

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you so much, Cammie. I will be posting all the links of how people can find you. And thank you, thank you, thank you for being my friend and being on here. I just adore the heck out of you.

Cami Turpin (41:39)

Thank you.

Oh,

Episode 15 #Filmfollowfriday with Kami Wittrock | Photographers Create Podcast

Summary

In this conversation, Alison Hatch interviews Cami Whitrock about her experience taking over Film Follow Friday on Instagram. They discuss the film community, the creative techniques they have learned and incorporated into their work, and the magic of Holga cameras. Cami shares her vision for the future of Film Follow Friday and emphasizes the inclusivity and supportiveness of the film community.

Takeaways

Film Follow Friday is a hashtag-based community on Instagram that connects film photographers and allows them to share their work.

The film community is known for its creativity and experimentation with different techniques, such as film soup and light leaks.

Using film as a medium allows photographers to let go of control and embrace the unknown, resulting in unique and surprising images.

Film Follow Friday has not only facilitated creative inspiration but also fostered meaningful friendships and connections among photographers.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

00:52 Taking Over Film Follow Friday

03:23 The Film Follow Friday Community

05:59 Exploring Creative Techniques

07:02 Incorporating Creative Techniques into Client Work

08:19 The Magic of Holga Cameras

10:41 Embracing the Creative Energy of Film

15:24 Building Friendships and Connections

17:29 Future Plans for Film Follow Friday

21:03 Where to Find Cami

Kami Wittrock Photography

Alison Hatch (00:23)

---

Hey, Kami, thank you so much for being on today. I appreciate it. I am so excited to talk to you. You're another film lover like me, and that is how we connected through Instagram was through our love of film. And I am so excited to talk to you about the film community today.

kamie (00:40)

Yeah, thanks for having me on. I can talk all day about film, so you might have to rein me in, but I'm excited.

Alison Hatch (00:48)

No, I can too. So you'll have to, we'll both have to rein each other in because I could talk about film forever. Let's start with the film community. So you recently took over film, film follow Friday from Liz Glenn, who is amazing. She has her own podcast. If you guys haven't listened to it, it's called Soul Over the Bones. It's fantastic. But she decided it was time for her to step,

put it down.

And I noticed that it was getting thinner and thinner the amount of times that it was on Instagram. So tell me the backstory about how and why you took over Film Follow Friday.

kamie (01:26)

Yeah, so it was kind of just something I've.

have followed Liz and film Follow Friday for a long time, probably almost as long as she's done it. And I know like I just connected with so many people through that group, following the hashtag, seeing other artists work, making friends through it. I looked forward to every Friday and seeing who she shared, what was shared, kind of just what was going on within the community. And I think I don't

I don't want to speak for Liz, but you know, if her life just got busy and yeah, it just kind of got quieter and quieter and I just like really found myself missing it. Um, I would check every Friday to see maybe she'll have it this week. And I just was really craving that again. And so I just really thought about it. Um, I was like, do I start something new myself? Um, you know, what could I start? And then I just was like, well, why start?

from ground zero, she's already created this amazing community of like-minded film photographers who are also like, it's very inclusive and encouraging and I didn't want to lose that sense that was in that community and so I just kind of reached out to her and I was like, you know, this is like way out of nowhere, you might not be open to the idea, but I was just curious if you would...

be interested if I kind of just took over, took the lead on it. And she kind of took some time to think about it. And she was like, yeah, you know, I think it's time for me to just step back and, um, for you to take the reins. So that's what I did. And it's been really fun. Um, I'm still learning and figuring kind of things out how they work for myself, but yeah, it's been really great.

Alison Hatch (03:20)

Yeah, so listeners, if you don't know what film follow Friday is, it's a hashtag. Um, a lot of people say hashtags are dead and I don't agree with that. I think that hashtags are still a way of connecting with other people. And I know in the film community, there's a lot of awesome hashtags to connect with each other. Um, and hashtag film follow Friday is one of them. And so Liz used to take.

images from the hashtag and then share them on her Instagram stories. And it just was a really great way, like Kami said, to connect with different film photographers that you may not have ever come across because of Instagram and how they want to show you what they think they want to show you. And Kami took it over. So Kami, what, like, tell me more about the community that you've met through Film Follow Friday. It had to have been something really powerful for you.

to want to be able to continue this hashtag

kamie (04:21)

Yeah, and you know, kind of like what you said with Instagram, I think sometimes we're just kind of fed the same thing over and over again. And I just always kind of felt like that's what I was getting was just kind of like a lot of the same stuff. And so with Film Follow Friday and kind of seeing what Liz shared, it was just really fun to be able to, there's such like a variety, I think, of people who share stuff in that group, and just seeing like some of that more

Alison Hatch (04:28)

Yes. Uh huh.

kamie (04:51)

experimental stuff and I know when Liz started it that was kind of part of the reason why she started it was to find kind of other film photographers who had that similar voice who you know were maybe trying different techniques or playing around with their style or you know lots of colors or film super you know whatever aspect of that kind of experimental film was and so

I'm inspired by it, you know, seeing people do some like crazy stuff with film. And that's been one of the things I just love the most about learning and using film. It's just like the things people are doing is just so cool and like people can be so creative with it. And I just, I really, we have that sense I think is really strong in that Film Follow Friday community. And so that's what I was really missing when I first reached out.

Liz is just seeing more of that in that community.

Alison Hatch (05:53)

Yeah, I mean, there's lots of different film photographers, but the yeah, the film follow Friday community is definitely the creative bunch. They push the envelope of what film can, should, would, I don't know, like all these different crazy things. So like what techniques have you learned from other photographers through this community that you have tried and liked or maybe tried and didn't like? Like what have you tried from this group?

kamie (06:21)

Yeah, well, film soup, that's a big one, which I love. I love to do film soup, but I think that group is where I maybe first saw film soup. And of course, the first time you see it, you're kind of like, what is this? It's like maybe, what you see. And so that really kind of spiked my interest. And even just playing around with light when I first started learning film and I opened the back of my camera,

heart stop moment like oh no you've ruined it and you know just like going from that of that kind of thought process to like oh no I have to throw this roll away to like oh no like this is I'm now intentionally using this to create something and then there's I mean still stuff on there too I haven't tried that I would love to try you know some of the Polaroid emulsions and all the things people are doing on that with that too so

It's still lots to learn, but those have been some of my favorites.

Alison Hatch (07:24)

Yeah, so you're also a family photographer. Have you pulled some of these creative techniques into your client work?

kamie (07:33)

I have, yeah, just I'm kind of working on rebranding right now, so things feel a little bit up in the air still for me. But yeah, this last year I went actually full film for all of my family sessions. My digital just kind of collected dust, which to be honest would be the way I would prefer it anyways. So yeah, this last year I just kind of started incorporating more of that into my client work.

Alison Hatch (07:52)

Mm-hmm. Same.

kamie (08:02)

some light leaks, a little bit of film soup, as well as doing some stuff with like Holgas and the sprockets and 35mm and all that too.

Alison Hatch (08:11)

Okay, let's talk Holgas. Okay, listeners, if you don't know what a Holga is, it is a plastic camera. Like it's totally like something you should get out of McDonald's Happy Meal. It is that seems of that quality of plastic. There are multiple levels of Holgas, but it's a toy camera. It doesn't have anything fancy, nothing at all fancy about it. And there is like this community that just love it. And I know that you do a lot of Holga stuff and you're in the Holga community as well.

I have yet to fall in love with my Holga. Can you tell me your magic? Like, what do you love about this camera? Cause your images are way better than mine. I just don't think I figured out or me and my camera haven't become friends yet, but like, what is that magic? What does that draw to a Holga?

kamie (09:01)

I think with Holgas I kind of go into it with like no expectations because just like really never know what you're gonna get. I and I think that's what I love about it is just again that like sense of surprise. I almost every time I get a rollback from my Holga I'm like this isn't what I thought it was gonna be but I love it you know so it's just kind of that like fun sense of like freedom.

Alison Hatch (09:06)

Smart.

kamie (09:29)

and I think just being able to kind of embrace like the you know the like spontaneity I guess that can kind of just come out of it and also I mean I love it but it's also the bane of my existence like sometimes I'm like why do I shoot this dang thing? Sometimes I've dropped it and the back's fall falling off and I you know I mean or I've opened and then the rolls come apart I mean it's just like

it can be a headache as much as it is a joy to also shoot on it. But it's a great little camera.

Alison Hatch (10:06)

No, I think that is something that I love about film is honestly, you're letting go of control in some level, like some film photographers, you know, are so, so good. And they only do one thing. And so it's very predictable what their outcome is. But in this like film follow Friday community, it's about creativity. And when you're using film, you are inviting in creative energy.

and you're letting go of control. And I think with Holga, you're like letting go of most of the control and allowing creative energy. And do you feel the same way about film? Like, do you feel this like partnership? Maybe I'm just way too like out there, I don't know, but like inviting in this creative energy and like the universe and what creation wants to work with you and letting go of control and letting film be that vessel.

for whatever it's gonna be. Cause you don't know, like you said, you don't know what you're gonna get when you get back your whole guy. Do you feel the same way about it? Or am I just by myself on that?

kamie (11:11)

100%. I think, I don't, I guess I don't know if this is a huge thing, but I feel like in the film community you hear kind of like that, all the film gods know, right? Like

film gods know what's gonna happen and how it's gonna work and like you think it's gonna be this way but then the film's gonna be like no it's actually gonna be this way and then you get it and you're like oh this is even better than what I could have planned. Sometimes it's not but I feel like most of the times you do get it and it is like wow this is even better than what I imagined but I totally agree. I think it's just like yeah a lessening of the control of it.

and I think that's part of the appeal too. For me at least, that's part of it.

Alison Hatch (11:56)

And I think that's why we're like, digital feels so uncomfortable because we are in love with that process and love with that spontaneity, the film gods or whatever that, you know, partnership. And with digital, digital is awesome. Digital can do amazing things. And I'm not like downplaying digital, but for me as an artist, and it sounds like for you as an artist, digital just isn't the medium for me.

It has way too much control and I can manipulate it so much. And I love this unknown. I love this sense of unknown and letting in whatever is supposed to be let in. And maybe I need to embrace that with my whole.

kamie (14:04)

When I first started as a photographer I was at shooting digital trying to emulate film for a long time and then finally just jumped on the film bandwagon and started to learn. And I feel like that's how I've really come to find my voice is by shooting film because it's just again it's I think just a different process shooting it. With digital myself I tend to just overthink it.

and overshoot and then that in and of itself kind of just wrecks my creativity or even like sometimes even the instant seeing it like can be almost like disheartening to me or I just give up or I just end up being like okay this is good enough versus with film I'm having to kind of imagine it before like before I actually see it so

You know, I might try something a little bit differently, or I might try it multiple times, or I might try it with a light leak, or a double exposure, or you know, just different ways to be more creative than I find that I am when I shoot digital.

Alison Hatch (15:12)

totally.

So I feel

feel like, yeah, with film, I also have noticed

kamie (15:16)

I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you. So, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you. So, I'm

Alison Hatch (15:19)

I need to be more present. I have to be more present in what's happening. And with digital, I'm so behind the camera because I'm like, you can see it right away and you're like checking it and, oh, I should just tweak this a little bit or tweak this a little bit. And when you shoot film, like you said, you have to imagine it. You have to be there with your clients or with whatever creative project you're doing so much more and trusting that you're, that you know what you're doing.

And I feel like digital just is a constant like, oh, you don't have it quite right. It's that like, doesn't allow me to trust my creative process nearly as much as film does. Yeah. Okay. So what, like how with the film Follow Friday, have you created any like really great friendships through it? I know we've talked about all the creative processes that you have tried or.

kamie (15:59)

Yeah, I agree.

Alison Hatch (16:16)

like to try it? I mean, there's so many more. I mean, like cenotypes, I would love to try. I've done it like twice. And I know some people do that with film, but you don't see that a whole lot and other creative techniques, but friendships like the community part of it. Have how do you feel about that? Like have you made some great friendships that have helped change your business or your creative process?

kamie (16:36)

Yeah, I definitely have. I feel like I've connected with probably a lot of the people that I talked to or have had friendships kind of through Instagram. I've met that community and even just like a lot of the people who I follow now for inspiration or ideas or just kind of see what they're up to. A lot of them I've found through that community and you know.

Alison Hatch (16:46)

Mm-hmm.

kamie (17:03)

I've attended some workshops with different people and built even in-person friendships that I feel like a lot of it kind of stems back to that community, the Film Follow Friday community, finding people through that, and even just kind of the experimental film group that is also in that Film Follow Friday. I was going to say something else and then that slipped my

Alison Hatch (17:34)

It happens. Now this is obviously, it just happened to me.

kamie (17:37)

Oh, okay. I was gonna say, and now too, as like, kind of curating it, it's been really fun. I feel like I'm seeing even more of that. Maybe because I'm constantly in the hashtag now, like looking always to see who's posting stuff, what they're posting, and then sharing it as well. And I've had people follow me through that, that...

probably wouldn't have found their account if they if we hadn't had that kind of connection. So that's also been really cool just to see kind of the new friends and accounts that I've been able to connect with through that.

Alison Hatch (18:17)

Yeah, totally the same. That's how we met was through Film Follow Friday. Like I would never come across your account because we live on totally opposite sides of the country. So what do you envision for Film Follow Friday? Do you wanna keep it as it is or do you have like a vision or an idea of like expanding it somehow or changing it or making it your own? Like what do you have for the future for Film Follow Friday?

kamie (18:41)

I'm so glad you asked because I have been, I've been sitting on that. So I kind of started in, it was, I think it was about mid September is when I kind of took over from Liz and, um, of course for all of us that like September, October through Christmas is kind of a little crazy. So I didn't have a whole lot of time to think on it, but the last couple of weeks that have been slower, I've really had this sense of like wanting to kind of really grow the community.

and what the best avenue is to do that. Kind of going along with what you said about like hashtags are dead, which I agree I don't think that they are dead but I do I'm finding that with Instagram it's getting more difficult I think to see things. It's very limiting. I feel like Instagram doesn't always show me things with a hashtag.

Like I'll have a friend that will post something and I'll see they have it, hashtag film follow Friday, but then when I go in the hashtag on Instagram itself, the photo's not there. Or it won't show up for like three or four days or something like that. So it has like its limitations. So I've been kind of trying to figure out, okay, so how can we continue to grow the

what's the best avenue for doing that. So I've been kind of just tossing around different ideas and maybe making it its own page. And then also, maybe, I don't know, like a website feature or a print something someday. These are all kind of long-term big ideas that I've just been brainstorming, so nothing solid yet. But that's kind of the direction I'm hoping to head down with it.

Alison Hatch (20:32)

I love that idea. I love the idea of doing it as like its own page, just as that, that and repost being able to repost it. And I, when I was doing photo native and the hashtag, you know, I am photo native and trying to see images of people had to use that hashtag, it was a pain. It was a pain. You like had to figure out different ways of searching it and stuff to like see it in chronological order, or it just wanted to show you what

kamie (20:52)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (21:03)

the algorithm wanted to show you, like what posts were actually trending or doing well with the hashtag, which isn't what I wanted. I wanted to see everybody's, like you're wanting to see everybody's. So I love that idea of doing it as its own page, as an Instagram page, that would be super fun.

kamie (21:17)

Yeah, yeah, so keep your eyes peeled because that is likely going to happen. So and then hopefully that too will just be, you know, I've also thought having its own page might help it grow a little bit faster rather than it just being me sharing stuff. Just because I can see how it could get kind of confusing with it being like, okay, you're a person, you're a business, but this is kind of a separate thing. You know, so just having

Alison Hatch (21:22)

Oh cool!

kamie (21:48)

a little bit more division between me and my business and then what Film Follow Friday is I think too maybe would help other people to kind of join in and be active within it as well.

Alison Hatch (22:00)

Yeah, that would be really, really cool. Okay, so is there anything else you want to leave with us? Where can we find you? Obviously use the hashtag filmfallafarday because we said it a hundred times today.

If you're a film user, at least follow the hashtags. You can see the other cool images that people post and get creative ideas, but where can people find you?

kamie (22:15)

I think.

Yeah, so Instagram is probably the best, just at Cammie Whitrock Photography. And then I'm on Facebook and I have a website too, but Instagram is typically the best. And I do just want to say too, I hope people don't feel like they have to be doing experimental film photography or anything like that in order to share on Film Follow

It's like I said, it's a very inclusive and encouraging group and just share, you know, share whatever you're shooting. So even if it's just, you know, a picture of your kids on a snow day or whatever, whatever it might be, don't let anything intimidate you from sharing on there.

Alison Hatch (23:15)

I feel like the film community is so kind and so inclusive. And you've got people who are like crazy professional and they have amateurs and you just have hobbyists and everybody is on the same playing field. And I know that your community is exactly the same. So yes, if anybody, wherever you're at and use the hashtag, cause the community is amazing and so supportive.

Kamie (23:39)

Yes, that truly is. Yeah.

Alison Hatch (23:41)

Thank you, Kami. I appreciate you doing this really quickly with me today. It was really fun to talk to you and meet you in person, sort of. It was really fun. All right, thanks.

kamie (23:53)

Yes, thank

The Creative Act a way of being Part 1 | The You Belong Podcast

In the next few episodes we are going to dive into the incredible book The Creative Act: a Way of Being by Rick Rubin. As photographers it is easy to call ourselves creatives, but do we really know the depths of what that means. In Rick’s book he covers 78 different topics about the creative. How to know it, how to channel it, how to attract it, how to utilize it, and so on. This is Part 1 of a 4 part series of diving deep into living a creative life by Rick Rubin’s words. So worth the time to listen for anyone wanting to live a truly creative life.

---

alison the creative path 1 (00:01.418)

Hey everyone, welcome back to the You Belong Podcast. Today, I want to talk about the book, The Creative Act, A Way of Being by Rick Rubin. So this book is 70 something odd, very short, usually about two and a half pages, thoughts on creativity. And all of it is amazing.

All of it is really pertinent to creatives and I felt like this would be such an amazing thing to dive into together on the podcast. So I'll be doing a series on this book and would love to hear your feedback at the end. So if you will listen to this, let me know your thoughts on creativity, if it was helpful for you or not. So let's dive in. So.

Rick opens up talking about everyone is a creator. And I know a lot of people don't believe this or feel this way. I mean, I have family members who are amazed with the work that I create, which I find kind of funny because I'm not that amazing. I don't think I am. And they don't feel that they could ever do something like that. And I think the point is, is that

with Rick's thought is that creativity isn't just art. Creativity is in being able to solve a solution to a problem, to find a new way to drive home, to come up with a chore chart for your kids, or all this act of just creating something, not the act of being an artist necessarily, but that everyone...

is a creator. We are all creating lives that we live in. So I thought that was really awesome. He says to create is to bring something into existence that wasn't there before. Even a conversation that is creating something and it is all fulfilling. Something that he talks about is that we are to be able to be creatives.

alison the creative path 1 (02:26.87)

we have to tune in to the universe. And this seems a little woo wooey, but I'm a little woo wooey. And I believe in this 100%. So I wanted to read, this is on page 95. He says, our work embodies a higher purpose. Whether we know it or not, we're a conduit for the universe. Material is allowed through us. If we are a clear channel, our intention reflects the intentions of the cosmos.

Most creators think of themselves as the conductor of the orchestra. If we zoom out of our small view of reality, we function more as an instrumentalist in a much larger symphony the universe is orchestrating. We may not have a great understanding of what this magnum opus is because we only see the small part we play. And as I totally think this is true. Um,

We live in this world where we think we get very small-minded. Our lives get very small because it's hard. We have a lot of things that we have to do in a day, a lot of responsibilities. And so it zooms in really tight to what we are needing to do in the day, what our life is like, our problems. But when you create, it's something outside of yourself. It is this much bigger...

than you thing and it is a connection to the universe, a connection to humanity and I just love that view of it. We all have the ability to be creatives like he said and to be able to do that we have to tune in to creativity through the universe and he calls it the source. It doesn't

is like a cloud. Let me read on page 14.

alison the creative path 1 (04:34.358)

He says, it may be helpful to think of source as a cloud. Clouds never truly disappear, they change form. They turn into rain and become part of the ocean and then evaporate and return to being clouds. The same is true of art. Art is a circulation of energetic ideas. What makes them appear new is that they're combining differently each time they come back. No two clouds are the same. If you have read Big Magic, it

she talks, I forget the author of that, I'll have to reference it in the show notes. She talks about this same thing, that creative energy is out there in the universe. It isn't ours, it doesn't belong to us, it is this universal energy and when something needs to be created, it tries to find a vessel to create it in and that person can create for it to have it come to fruition and if that

person isn't receptive to that creative energy, to the source, as Rick calls it, then it will move on to find another person to be able to create this. She talks about it in the book that she had this idea for a book and she never got around to writing it. And then a couple of years later, a friend of hers came to her and said, hey, I've been writing this book. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. And it was the exact same.

idea for the book that she had years before but never wrote it. It was mind-blowing to her that this creative energy, this source came to her first but she didn't listen and it wanted to be made so it jumped to a different antenna as creative artists and our antennas to be able to be received and then become real and in real life. So how

Do we tune in our antennas to the source? How can we be in tune with the universe and tune with the source and tune with this creative energy so we can create big magic like the book is called, create these amazing things? The first thing that Rick talks about is your awareness. And this...

alison the creative path 1 (06:58.254)

is not a new idea by any means, especially recently, the idea of meditation, presence, awareness is really big. Everybody is in it or has participated in it in some way somehow. And he talks about experiencing the world without judgment or control, that awareness cannot be forced, only practice and persistence is key.

in tuning into the source. We cannot change what we notice, but how we notice it. And he says, the universe is only as large as our perception of it. When we cultivate our awareness, we are expanding the universe. So during COVID, I took a meditation class because COVID sucked and I was trying really hard to get through it. And I was having a bit of an emotional distress. So I knew that meditation had all these benefits.

and I won't go into any of that, but the thing that this meditation coach taught me was so interesting that you need to be present, which everybody knows, but to be non-judgmental of the present. At the time I was having significant health issues, I was in pain, I was dizzy, I was nauseous constantly, and I did not.

want to be in my present. I want it out of my present. So freaking bad. And to be able to sit with yourself non-judgmentally and allow whatever is happening to happen was very difficult. And hopefully it's not as difficult for you. Hopefully your situation isn't as uncomfortable as mine was, but to sit in here and now. So like, for instance, me, I'm sitting here with a podcast

In front of me it's recording. It's very, very quiet. And I would just need to let the day happen for a few minutes and just notice it. But whatever comes up, whatever thoughts or feelings or sensations come, I don't judge them. I'm more curious about it. And just let them, the energy flow through me. And then if it wants to leave, let it leave.

alison the creative path 1 (09:26.526)

and let whatever else needs to come in. And Rick is talking about the source and being able to tune into it like an antenna like that. So if these creative ideas or thoughts or feelings come to you that you aren't too busy, that life isn't too loud, that you wouldn't be able to hear the source speaking to you. Man, does that sound really spiritually out there. But it's so true.

So the next thing he talks about is the vessel, the vessel within us, which gets filled up with all the information coming at us every single day. It's a lot, and we all have...

We all have a filtration system. Because there is so much information coming at us, there's no way we can process all of the stimulation, all of the information, all of the energy that's coming at us. So from a very young age, we've learned to tune stuff out, things that we don't feel are pertinent or important or part of our survival or interesting. And the filter that we have for our vessel

needs to change so the source can come into our vessel. So we talked about non-judgment and being in the present moment. Something that he talks about is that we need to revert, even taking that idea farther, is reverting it into a childlike state. This newness

experiencing it without judgment but curiosity as a child.

alison the creative path 1 (11:18.318)

So we need to let go of opinions, things that we find are truth already, things that we think are lies already, cultural things that we may have learned that could inhibit our curiosity for the source. Instead, we wanna hold that information softly, non-judgmentally, and the more raw data we take in and the less we shape it,

the closer we get to the source. And the end byproduct of that is art. The tangible isn't.

I'll send you need to edit this part out. What you just said before the sentence.

So it's a really interesting way of changing our mindset around our day, non-judgmentally curiosity and presence, which has a lot of other benefits besides tuning into the energetic source. If you wanna dive into meditation more, maybe we need to do that in a different podcast, but it has a lot of other amazing benefits to it.

Something else that Rick talks about, like I said, there's a lot of different itty bits of this book. It's just itty bits put together. The next thing that he talks about that I found was very interesting and worthwhile talking about is the end byproduct of art. So we live in this world that is produce, right? We need so much content.

alison the creative path 1 (12:53.778)

If you're a photographer, you need content, content all the time. Content for social media, content for newsletters, content for websites. If you're an influencer, that's your life. Your life is content. It's just so much creating for content. But the end by product, Rick says, the tangible, the content, the photograph, the book, the essay, the...

I don't know, painting, whatever you're creating, the craft that you're creating isn't the point. Did you hear me? It isn't the point. That's not the point of creating, but the act of creation for creating sake.

alison the creative path 1 (13:42.358)

How do you feel about that? The act of creating can transcend us. We've all heard of flow and I bet you've been in a flow state. So for me, when I get into a flow state, I lose all track of time. I don't really hear anything. I'm just doing my thing and I'm so engrossed in it that I am in my own world. I'm in my own bubble, in this.

flow state and it just really great things are coming out of me and these ideas or production or whatever that I'm doing is this act of creating feels amazing. And if you've been in that flow state, I know you feel the same way that it was incredible that you would love to have that more often. It doesn't come all the time, but when it does come, it's amazing. And Rick calls it transcendent.

I love that word, because it does. It takes you to a different level. It takes you to a different place. It takes you to amazingness that you didn't know that you were able to do if you've never been in that flow state before.

alison the creative path 1 (14:58.15)

He even talks about it like the word transcendent, that it's like this spirituality. And if you're talking about the source and the universe and that you're a vessel, that is definitely ties into this spirituality part of things. I want to read the last paragraph of page 33.

alison the creative path 1 (15:26.33)

If a piece of work, a fragment of consciousness, or an element of nature is something allowing us to access something bigger, that is its spiritual component made manifest. It awards us a glimpse of the unseen. So creating for the act of creation's sake, to be able to transcend into that spirituality, into that place of flow, into that...

feeling of amazingness is the real reason for becoming an artist, for creating. It's not the end byproduct. That is a really great part of it, but it's not the true purpose of being an artist. So how can we perpetuate this

flow state, being more in tune with our source. We talked about meditation. Rick also talks about, there's so many different practices and it really depends on who you are and what your personality is like and what your needs are like and how your brain functions. So we talked about meditation. Another thing that I do is journaling. Everybody has heard of the artist's way and this daily journal thing. I call it word vomit, which is a very pretty term, but.

sitting down and just writing whatever the heck comes out of your brain. I do 20 minutes and just writing it out. My creative ideas don't usually come to me in that way. Sometimes I'll get a really profound thought when I do my creative, when I do my journaling. But what it honestly does is it just kind of empties out my brain or brains, some people's brains, at least mine is very busy, is very loud in there. And this is a way for everybody to have

and it gets out of the way so that I can tune in more conscientiously to my presence and try to find the source and that creativity. For some people it's prayer, it could be just coffee by the window and or outside if it's nice enough, just sitting in the quiet. So for some people it's exercise, hiking or running or...

alison the creative path 1 (17:48.866)

being in nature, gardening, I love gardening, that's another great one. So he talks about, you know, goes into this idea of being able to tune into the source through these different practices and to have it as a habit, to do it daily. And then also being okay with the practice needing to change. If this practice isn't serving you, if it isn't helping you tap into the source the way that you are wanting to change up the habit.

So you're able to do that.

alison the creative path 1 (18:27.082)

Another idea he has is to...

alison the creative path 1 (18:33.938)

immerse yourself in the great works. This is not a new idea. A lot of these aren't new ideas, but this one definitely isn't a new idea. I grew up where you go to college and you learn all these different things. It's not as in fashion anymore to do this, but to learn the greats. And I was a humanities person and I loved it. I loved learning about art and reading different books and music and submerging myself in

other great artists greatness. And that can be different for everybody. It doesn't necessarily have to be like New York Times list of the 25 most influential books ever. It can be just interests that you have and find the greats of those interests. So immersing yourself in beautiful works from other people.

The point of this is not to mimic the works. This is something that's very interesting. So I'm sure you guys have all heard that there is no new ideas, only recycled. And I believe there's a lot of validity to that, but I don't think people go, well, the majority of artists don't go out into the world trying to mimic things. I wanna tell you a quick story.

So my brother is a photographer, he's an architecture photographer, and he also is a teacher at a college for photography. And his birthday was just recently, and I gave him a book, an art book, and he was like, oh, I love this artist so much. And he was a great influence for me for my master's thesis. And I own one of the pictures from his master's thesis. And when I looked at the artist's book, and then I was...

realized that this giant photograph in my house is completely influenced by this artist. It just, I did not put two and two together until he told me that. And he got to this point where he realized that his work was looking so much like this artist that he completely revamped his style because he didn't want to copy.

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So we may not realize that we're being heavily influenced by artists and that's okay if you are, but to be conscientious of not copying, to be the idea for submersing yourself in greatness is to see true beauty, see the really beautiful things that the source and the artist has worked together to create nature.

Nature is a great teacher. It is the greatest work ever. Mother nature has made the most beautiful, wonderful things. There are colors that panetone cannot generate that the natural world has. It's so deep, it's so expansive, and it has so much to teach us. Being in nature, deepening our connection to nature will serve our spirit and what serves our spirit in...

variably serves our artist output. That is a quote from Rick. I don't need to say more about that. The beach, forests, deserts, whatever your personal feeling is called to nature, even if you don't if you live in a city, just being outside and or bringing nature inside, having plants in your house. I

I'm kind of a plant lady as you can see behind me. Having nature, being close to nature is a great way to connect to your creativity and the source. All right.

Um, a couple more things he talked about.

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A way to find the source is memories and the subconscious or dreams. I find this very interesting. I'm not really a dream person and if I do have dreams, they're not really fun. So this is something I would love to work on. He talks about having a dream journal. And

waking up and writing down what you just dreamt of. And the more you do that, the more that you'll remember your dreams and that this is a way to connect to the source in your creativity. He says the psyche has an admittance to a universal wisdom deeper than what we can come up with within our conscious mind. It provides a far less limited view. And that is so true. In our reality, we have rules that we have to follow. Physics.

gravity, cultural rules, monetary rules. And in the dream world, inside of our brain, there are no rules whatsoever. And in the creative world, whatever you can imagine is fair game. And I love that within our brains, within ourselves is this unlimitedness. It's so exciting to think about this, that inside of us is unlimited potential. And we can find that.

He also talks about in the early morning, I will, okay, I'll send remove that sentence.

I don't know if you've heard of this. Also another thing about dream state and when you're waking up that in between, it's kind of Peter Pan-y. I just thought of that. Tinkerbell says he'll always be that special place in between asleep and awake. And it is, it's true, it's magical. That's very Peter Pan that anything is possible in that space. Another thing I've heard of is that in the early morning is when the veil is the thinnest. And so these creative energies can flow into us. Maybe it's because it's

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It's quiet, it's dark, you're alone with your thoughts, but that creativity can kind of just flow into you, that source can flow into you with these special ideas. Last thing is setting. The setting is finding the best environment to create a clear channel is completely personal. So for some it may be complete isolation. It might be complete isolation.

in nature, it might be complete isolation in your home or your studio, it could be complete silence or it could be completely chaotic and busy like if you place yourself in a very busy place inside the city or at the park or wherever you feel comfortable and can be able to tune in to the

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helps to realize that it is better to follow the universe than those around you. Don't, okay, we're gonna take out that last sentence, Alison.

So this is just the beginning taste of this amazing book, The Creative Act, A Way of Being. I highly recommend it. I think there's 78 different little tiny chapters and topics that, and I'm not gonna cover everything, but I wanted to do this podcast since we're all creatives to dive into our creativity and to understand creativity better.

Like we all want to make, but why and how? And I would, this podcast is diving into that more and more and more. And I hope you enjoyed it. If you did enjoy it, please share this, share it on your social media, leave me a review, I'm share it with your friends and family or your email news list. It would make my day and my...

world so much bigger and expansive to have more people listen to this podcast and grow this community where every creative, every photographer belongs. So thank you so much for being here and thank you for being you.

Why Write, with Rachel larsen Weaver, You Belong Podcast

Summary

In this conversation, Alison Hatch interviews Rachel Larsen-Weaver about the importance of writing in a creative practice. They discuss how writing can enhance photography and other artistic mediums, and how to incorporate writing into daily life. Rachel shares her journey of how she got into writing and the interplay between writing and photography in her own work. They also talk about Rachel's writing workshop and the benefits of participating in a safe and supportive writing community. The conversation highlights the value of exploring personal obsessions in writing and the impact of different skill levels in a learning environment.

Takeaways

Writing can enhance and expand a creative practice, including photography.

Incorporating writing into daily life can provide a therapeutic and meditative outlet.

Exploring personal obsessions in writing can lead to new insights and creative growth.

Participating in a writing workshop can provide a safe and supportive space for sharing and receiving feedback.

Learning from individuals with different skill levels can enhance one's own creative journey.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

06:24 The Importance of Writing in a Creative Practice

12:54 Incorporating Writing into Daily Life

19:22 Exploring Personal Obsessions in Writing

24:47 Rachel's Writing Workshop

27:56 Creating a Safe Space for Writing

32:34 Learning from Different Skill Levels

36:40 Other Ways to Work with Rachel

39:33 Closing Remarks

You can find Rachel at https://www.rachellarsenweaver.com on Instagram at Rachel.Larsen.Weaver. Her run of the Words Workshop starts March 4th, 2024.

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Alison Hatch (00:01.425)

Hey Rachel, thank you so much!

rachel (00:01.82)

Do you always do a dance for that? Yeah, I like it.

Alison Hatch (00:05.518)

dumb little countdown. So I'm trying to get into the groove, into the vibe of my countdown before my podcast starts.

rachel (00:15.338)

It's so good! They all need to see it, Allison!

Alison Hatch (00:20.014)

Okay, maybe I'll do it, but it'll probably get turned into a meme or something probably if I'm lucky. Anyway, thanks Rachel for being on today. I'm so excited to have you. If you guys don't know Rachel Larson-Weber, she's a friend of mine and she's amazing and creative and wonderful and so much fun to be around. So I'm so glad you get to be on the podcast today and we're going to talk all things words, which isn't very photography-y of us, but we're going to talk words today.

rachel (00:21.554)

Yeah.

rachel (00:49.447)

We get to lean into our artist creative selves that like are even more expansive maybe than our photographer selves.

Alison Hatch (00:57.714)

Yes, expansion. It's all about expansion. I like it. Yeah. So let's start with, you can introduce yourself if you want and how you got into writing.

rachel (01:01.111)

Yeah.

rachel (01:11.65)

Okay, so I, as Allison said, I'm Rachel Larson Weaver. I am a film photographer. That's, you know, how Allison and I came to know each other. I am also a mom to five kids. I, who happen to also mostly be homeschooled, though they range from like not yet in school and about to graduate in college. So, you know, there's a lot of various school happening or not happening.

And I also do educating and mentoring for photographers, but one month a year I teach a writing workshop, which is part of what we're talking about today. And then I guess the other part of the question was how did I get into writing? Sorry, you know when you start...

Alison Hatch (01:56.258)

Yes, yes.

Alison Hatch (02:00.206)

Yeah, how did you even get into writing? Yeah, if you're an analog film photographer, how is writing part of your process and how did you even get into it?

rachel (02:09.926)

Well, it was my process before photography ever was. It was actually writing that kind of brought photography to me. So my creative background was when I was young, I would not have actually said that I was particularly creative, but I loved to write. I always had a diary. I was always journaling. I was always dreaming of stories that I wanted to write, but that felt...

like a path for me. I also love the beach and I love swimming and even as a kid I was like, I bet a writer could just like live on the beach. They could live anywhere. So that was a big part of the dream. And so my undergraduate degree was in English and I, after my undergraduate, I started my MFA in creative writing. I had a baby in the middle of that first year and then I was like nursing her the second semester and so

I did not finish that MFA in creative writing. But that was always kind of the way I was drawn. But after I had my third child, I was missing having a consistent writing practice and I wanted to start a blog. And I felt like, oh, to start a blog, you have to have a camera, there has to be some pictures. And so it was actually, I started with the pictures to...

with the words, but now I tend to sort of think about the pairing almost in the other direction that now I often start with pictures and go to words, but I like the interplay of the two mediums, which I think lots of us do. It's the popularity of magazines were always the interplay of those two things. Blogs, social media, lots of places we like what conversation a photograph.

and a caption can have.

Alison Hatch (04:10.446)

Absolutely. And as photographers, we have no choice if you have a business to have to write. You have no choice. So why not embrace it as like a part of your creative practice and your expanse with your work that you do instead of fighting against it, which is

A lot of the reason why I came to you because I was like, I don't really want to do this. I don't know what to say. Like Rachel, help me out. This is hard. It can be really challenging when we're so used to being behind the camera and being faceless to having a voice in that way.

rachel (04:35.485)

D-

Yeah!

rachel (04:50.538)

I think that one of the things that becomes sort of important, I think, for the artist photographers, artist photographer entrepreneurs in particular, that if you're trying to run an artful photography business, but then you are always thinking of your captions or your newsletter or what you're writing on your website as copy rather than another art form to embrace.

you might feel yourself more resistance. Because I think most of us, we see the images we create, I don't think we're thinking of them as content, right? We might be using them sort of in that way, but we're creating art that we're sharing. And if you start to think of your writing as another way of creating art that you can share, but in a different medium, that will help get your work also in front of more people's eyes. I mean, just from a-

logistical, kind of marketable, analytical point of view. When you have longer captions, for instance, on an Instagram post, people stay there longer to read them, and that tells the algorithm this was a more interesting piece of content that it is going to put in front of more people. But if people have to trust that what you're putting in those captions

is something of value and that they're interested in. And so that's a practice you can build up.

Alison Hatch (06:24.702)

Yeah. So let's back way the heck up. We kind of like jump from how you started doing words into, all right, let's do this. So let's back way up. So five kids, MFA, like homeschool, your life is chaotic and you're adding in writing a newsletter and captions and mentorships and all these things and doing it from a place of creativity.

rachel (06:28.418)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (06:54.034)

instead of copy, I have to do this. So what, how are you juggling all of that? How are you adding in writing into your daily life as a creative practice versus I have to do?

rachel (07:08.626)

Well, one thing that I think is interesting to point out, you say all of those things and all of those things are true, but in some ways I might argue that it's the writing that helps make all of those things be possible rather than it being another thing that adds on. So I kind of see that I have two separate writing practices and they serve really different purposes. The first is a morning page practice.

Alison Hatch (07:21.31)

Ooh, I like it.

rachel (07:36.094)

which kind of comes from Julie Cameron's ideas, but I loosely follow the artist way concept on morning pages. But those pages that I try to write by hand in the morning, usually before the rest of my house wakes up while I'm drinking coffee, that is me processing all of the swirling thoughts, all of the ideas I have, the need to do's, the...

the anxiety is the hopes, the dreams. Those pages help me to work through all of that and to feel like I've kind of, by putting them on the page, I can let them go and then I can ground myself in the rest of my day. The thing that they also serve to do is that as I'm writing them, to the surface comes ideas that keep showing up and that are revealing themselves to me. And when I know when those ideas

keep bubbling up that that's probably something I want to write for a newsletter, which then becomes a shareable, more public-facing piece of writing, which that, morning pages feel less like a creative act and more like a meditative, prayerful, therapeutic act, whereas the writing of the newsletter kind of builds on that, and that does feel like the act of creation.

Alison Hatch (08:57.257)

Mm-hmm.

rachel (09:04.961)

Um.

Alison Hatch (09:05.118)

Yeah, I think as artists, we all have to have some sort of creative practices outside of our meet quote unquote medium, right? And everybody's heard of the artist way. And if you really do it, it's actually quite expansive, like spending time in nature and all this stuff. And I think it's absolutely okay. Like you're doing is just picking a part of it that works for you. We all need to just try to find that creative practice that works for us. And it's, it's the same for me. I journal every day as well.

rachel (09:13.392)

Yeah.

rachel (09:18.896)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (09:34.554)

And I, when I really think about what it does for me is we have all this information coming at us all the time. And it just kind of helps empty it out. It's just like, just empty it. Yeah.

rachel (09:45.33)

Yes. It feels like relief, like where, I mean, not to use like a really, it's like popping a pimple or something, do you know what I mean? Where you're like, cool, okay, yeah. Like, that's done. So now I can go on to the other stuff and it's not like festering or, but it really has, you know, that's, I think a huge part of, like I said,

Alison Hatch (09:55.298)

Satisfying! Yes! That's good! Yes!

Alison Hatch (10:06.103)

Yeah.

rachel (10:14.698)

It's almost separate from my creative practice. That's like what allows me the space to be creative. It's the work before the work. But you also mentioned, I do think having like more than one creative medium that we engage with, even if the only thing you care about truly in your heart of hearts is photography.

Alison Hatch (10:23.574)

Mm-hmm.

rachel (10:39.71)

I think when we are exploring other mediums, it helps make our photography richer and it helps us come to it with a new lens. And so playing in something and doing a little bit of cross training, I mean, I've never been an athlete, but I think they do that, right? I think that's a thing.

Alison Hatch (10:56.726)

Don't ask me. My friend, I haven't put a foot in a gym in a very, very long time. I don't know.

rachel (11:01.646)

Like, I think that like, you know, in off season, they're doing slightly different things and you're working different muscles and it does help come back to it. So even if you're like, I don't actually care about writing and it doesn't have to be writing, it could be anything. But I think if you are thinking about music and rhythm, that's probably going to then impact how you photograph. Or if you're thinking about painting, then all of a sudden you might have a different appreciation of how colors and

Alison Hatch (11:11.5)

Yeah.

rachel (11:30.638)

And so those of us who writing is the other thing, it might be even more about story or there's just different ways that those things are gonna impact how we build out the art in any other field. And I then, as I said, I started because I wanted pictures to go along with my writing. One thing that I found, especially at the time I had lots of little kids,

I had a really hard time writing in the noise at that point in my life, and so photography was something that I could do in the hustle and bustle of my life, where writing felt a little harder in that space. I was trying to give myself, I don't know, permission to do what feels right in any given season, right? That you're not holding so tight to the thing you always thought you would do.

Alison Hatch (12:25.879)

Yeah.

rachel (12:30.034)

that when a new thing uncovers itself. But now I've really, and so then I leaned pretty hard into photography and it's been in the last three years or so that I've brought back a strong writing practice. And then I like how they sit together and who knows how that will evolve in the future.

Alison Hatch (12:54.562)

Yeah, like, amen to that. Amen to whatever creative practice is coming towards you, accepting it and letting go of what's no longer serving you. And I am the same. I feel like as I want to live an artful life, I'm making this decision. And so it's easier for me to pick up different things. Like I have a lot of different outlets and mediums that I like to do.

rachel (12:57.734)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (13:20.802)

But if you aren't that person, maybe considering trying something outside of your medium, like you said, would be helpful for your medium. And writing and journaling every day, because I don't consider myself a writer, I just don't. It's not where I feel comfortable. Like you are freaking amazing at it. And for me, it's kind of a little more, you know, stop and start, like, I feel like it's learning to drive stick shift. It's like, ugh, like back and forth, back and forth, sometimes I can get forward and sometimes I stop.

but just journaling and like practicing, just practice, right? The thousand hour principle of you just gotta practice until you're great at it. Even though I'm journaling random nonsense that is not for anybody's eyes ever, and I delete it every day even, but to just practice typing it and a thought onto a page, just that alone is immensely helpful.

rachel (14:12.327)

Yeah!

Because it can be so difficult, especially if you grew up kind of under traditional schooling situations and you felt like once that it was going to be judged and it was gonna be, there was a standard that what your words needed to be. And so that can be a sort of a triggering experience for some people and there can be a lot of resistance to the very act because they're thinking.

Alison Hatch (14:27.856)

Oh yes.

rachel (14:43.602)

This has been painful for me in the past. And I can think of all sorts of ways that your words could have been misconstrued in the past or used against you. There can be this place of difficulty in the practice, but by showing up and doing it through journaling, doing it for your private self, and just the repetition of it, you tell yourself like...

Oh, I'm safe here. Like I can show up here, I can do this for myself. This is okay. And I think you can relax into it and see what it reveals.

Alison Hatch (15:23.73)

Yeah, I'm lucky enough to be really old so that stuff I made in the past wasn't for show. Yes, I did grow up in public school and yes, I wanted to be a straight A student and I never have put that those like connected the dots that way that me writing a paper is going to be graded. But I feel like in our society today, we create for content sake, right?

rachel (15:29.651)

Yeah.

rachel (15:49.032)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (15:49.578)

we create to show and creating to show is super important, but the reason behind it is even more important. And being able to create for no show is also really, really liberating and important for yourself to just have that freedom of expression for freedom of expression sake. And if that's journaling, writing or photography or dance or whatever the heck it is, just doing it for the sake of doing it

a great first step, especially if you're uncomfortable in that medium.

rachel (16:22.926)

Yeah, one of the things that kind of reminded me of too, as you were speaking, something that I think can be an interesting revelation when you are doing that writing just for the sake of yourself, just for your own eyes. But as you see what keeps coming up over and over again, I also think some of your like obsessions can become revealed. And one of the things I like to ask photographers who are engaging in that practice is

Is there an overlap between what you're obsessed with and what you're thinking about all the time and the actual work that you're creating? Because sometimes it's interesting to me, they aren't. It's like they've just been in their lane of photography and how they're going to depict a thing and they haven't put those together. And sometimes in writing it, I realize shifts that I should make so that my work is more aligned.

Alison Hatch (17:02.07)

Ew.

rachel (17:20.582)

with my values or with, you know, what my interests are. But I like it as an indicator for myself.

Alison Hatch (17:31.042)

deeply profound, Rachel. And I'm not surprised you had that deeply profound thought because you're just like that. You're amazing. But it is, it's really true. If you do the artist way, she says in the beginning that you will change. Like you cannot be the same person on the other side of this practice. And journaling, and we're talking about writing in general, like just writing and creative writing or whatever, but journaling, yes, the same stuff coming up over and over again. And it's like,

rachel (17:34.346)

It's

rachel (17:51.738)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (17:59.666)

uncovering things about yourself and what you yeah, who you really are underneath all of the cultural things that we've taught. My goodness, did you just why am I like fireworking behind me?

rachel (18:11.962)

she could have just she's saying this like beautiful thing and then fireworks exploded behind her screen it was just her screen saver went nuts and it was like that was amazing

Alison Hatch (18:13.467)

What was that?

Alison Hatch (18:24.746)

screen saver either. Okay, maybe the computer is like, oh, Alison, you're having a wonderful thought. This is so exciting. That was so good. But yeah, like you, you know, culturally we've taught to protect ourselves, right? Like we don't, our true authentic selves, unfortunately, we've had to like learn to keep safe. And when you journal, you're, you're relieving that. You're letting go of these things, peeling things back and finding things about yourself. But connecting it to my work,

rachel (18:30.778)

That was good, man!

Alison Hatch (18:54.542)

I haven't thought of that before. Like the same things that keep coming up in my journaling, am I showing it in my work? And I'll be honest, no, I'm not. And I wonder if I should. I don't know.

rachel (19:05.37)

I mean, again, you can try to make that work, and you don't have to show that either, but it could just be interesting to see, like, what does this look like in photographic form? What, and it doesn't have to be a one-to-one, it doesn't always have to be so literal, right? But if you're writing about...

Alison Hatch (19:13.107)

Yeah, that's true.

Alison Hatch (19:22.209)

Yeah.

rachel (19:34.494)

Belonging seems appropriate given the name of the podcast, but like then what if that keeps coming up some? Desire for a sense to belong or what then what? What are the different ways that translates? visually or How do you talk about the absence of it or do you know what I mean like that then becomes an interesting? Question for consideration that I just think

Alison Hatch (19:55.648)

Yeah.

rachel (20:02.598)

I don't know, always asking yourself the questions and seeing what the answers are, feels as useful as coming up with the answers. Recently, I felt like in my own journaling practice, I was getting kind of stagnant. And so I've just shifted to, I mean, it feels kind of like a prayerful opening to be like, what shall I know today? Like, what do you got for me, God?

And that sort of question when starting with the pause has been interesting to see what comes because otherwise sometimes I would jump right into this is what I have going on and this like how do I make this happen but kind of that second of pause has been revelatory. So whenever we do the pause in our own work it feels useful.

Alison Hatch (20:52.555)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (20:57.314)

Definitely that like, I was just talking to my son about this last night, that pause between something you react to, right? Like your reaction time, if you can elongate it more, like what are you really actually trying to get across or do?

just by expanding that ever so slightly. I was like, even for a millisecond, just expand it just a little more. And I was talking about him, you know, responding to text messages, because anyway, I'm a mom of teens. So, you know, but it's true in like having that pause, cause we're such go, go. Our lives are busy, everybody's are. And if we can leave space, and I'm gonna get a little woo here for a second, leaving space for that.

rachel (21:27.139)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (21:45.182)

you know, like you said, spirituality, like what's God trying to tell me or what is the creative source wanting to give to you that day? It's like trying to talk to you, but if we're too busy to listen to it, then it's not gonna, it's not gonna land. So having that pause, I love it.

rachel (21:51.698)

Yeah.

rachel (22:04.21)

No, it felt like I was going in with my text message before they ever had a response, anything to say. And I was like, creative source, here's what I've got going on. And there was never like, I wasn't trying to create a dialogue there. And it's been, I feel like it's been something kind of 20, 24, the last few weeks. And I felt, I have felt so settled and grounded and.

Alison Hatch (22:07.988)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (22:14.046)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (22:18.296)

Yeah.

rachel (22:30.386)

like more peaceful than how kind of that tail end of 2023 where you kind of get that. I'm like, okay, what will come to me is going to come to me and the words, but writing is writing is a practice that I think asks us to slow down and anything that we're any creative practice that we're doing. I mean, you're in do you knit and crochet?

Alison Hatch (22:38.98)

Yes. Yes, very much.

Alison Hatch (22:59.604)

I knit.

rachel (23:00.59)

Yeah, I mean, that's a slow ass practice.

Alison Hatch (23:02.726)

It is so it is a slow last practice. Oh, my goodness. People like ask me, why do you do this? First of all, you spend a ton of more money than buying the actual sweater. First of all, you're going to spend more money and then you're going to spend who knows how many hours to actually knit it out. And then if I don't like it, I will rip it out. I will just undo it. It's not about the end result for me. It's about the practice. It's about feeling it in my hand like

rachel (23:12.062)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (23:32.922)

finding something I want to create, feeling it in my hands and the rhythm of knitting, like it's more about the creating than the end result for knitting. Like way too reverent for knitting.

rachel (23:47.138)

No, but I loved it because I was thinking about how different mediums that impact it. And I was thinking about the textural and the feeling quality and that being something that you love. And I can think about how that also shows up in the images that you make. And again, the interplay between what we love and how they come into different places, that makes sense to me that here's this person who has reverence.

Alison Hatch (23:54.157)

Yeah?

rachel (24:14.462)

for texture and then you're like, oh yeah, duh.

Alison Hatch (24:18.038)

Yeah, I haven't thought of that before. That's true though. That's awesome. Okay, so you offer a writing class. Let's talk about, I've actually taken it and it was, can I say it this way? It was everything I didn't expect and everything I needed. Like I went into it for something other than what I got out of it and what I got out of it was exactly what I needed to get out of it. So let's talk about your class. It was...

Awesome. So let's talk a little bit about it.

rachel (24:50.186)

So the bone structure of it is that every day for a four week period, I mean, I keep saying every day, but it's Monday through Friday. I don't consider the weekends days or something. You get an emailed prompt. Everybody in the group does. And then twice a week, we meet for live calls that do, that we do exercises in class.

Alison Hatch (25:03.099)

Everybody needs time off.

rachel (25:16.926)

that there's ideas that I'll share and bring, and then people are sharing their work, both maybe what they've made outside of the time, and then sometimes the exercises that we're writing in there. I think I love a prompt, and I love how it can change how we've been thinking about something. And so even if you're a writer, but you feel like...

like me that you can be writing about the same things over and over again. I don't think that there's anything bad about that. I just had a newsletter on that and I was writing something else in that same idea. I think we get to write about our obsessions until we're done with them. We'll know we need to stop writing about them because we'll want to. And like don't suppress that because if you suppress that you're gonna suppress the whole creative flow. So just like let it come out and through. But I also think

you want to balance that with novelty and new ways of thinking. And probably your obsessions are still going to come through in those places, but maybe now you've changed the lens that you've looked at them because we're trying to imitate a stream of consciousness style, or we're thinking about how we can use repetitive word phrases. So like there's some of those craft elements woven in so that hopefully that you can take some of that.

to apply to your writing and feel that you have more of a toolbox, more skills around it. But primarily I think it's about

the ritual in creating time and space for your writing, for connecting with other creative people who are willing to share their work and to listen to your work. Like, I feel like listening is a huge part of what we're doing in there, and I think that can be a really beautiful thing. So inspiring and connecting and listening feel like really what we're creating the space for together.

Alison Hatch (27:19.935)

Yeah.

rachel (27:26.246)

I mean, I was amazed what some people were sharing in there last year. Yeah.

Alison Hatch (27:30.078)

Oh yeah, oh yeah. It was mind blowing, a little daunting, but I think what's so important with your class and what I appreciated so much about it was, number one, it's completely safe. It's a completely safe space. If you can, if you're like, I have no creative writing ability whatsoever, you're absolutely welcome and safe in that space. You can choose to share or not share.

You can go through the prompts every day in your own way. And when you feel ready to share something you can, you also do a Facebook group with it. And so people were sharing, they weren't feeling willing to do it in class, but they would do it in the Facebook group and whoever read it, read it and gave feedback. And honestly, everybody's feedback was incredibly positive. Nobody's gonna be mean or.

pick you apart, that's not the reason for the class whatsoever. It's about, for me, it was about the confidence in my own voice, which I didn't have before I went in. I had no confidence in my voice whatsoever, and that my voice didn't matter. And after I came out of the class, I felt like, yes, this is my voice and it freaking matters and I'm going to share it. And if I get, and I felt confident enough that if I got

rachel (28:46.931)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (28:52.05)

negative feedback where if people are like what you're saying is absolutely not true or ridiculous or wrong, I could be like, well, that's how I feel and you can take it or leave it. And it was so liberating to take your class for me in that sense.

rachel (29:01.436)

Yeah.

rachel (29:05.398)

That makes me so happy. That brings me a lot of joy because I like hearing your voice. I like the things that you have to say. I like how you say them in your podcast. I like how you say them in your newsletter. I like how you say them on your Instagram. I do think it is a nice place to be able to practice sharing that work and having kind of a baby step maybe before you are trying to share it more publicly.

Alison Hatch (29:12.802)

Take care.

Alison Hatch (29:30.946)

Hmm.

rachel (29:34.374)

because it's a more limited group. And also, I don't know if you ever find this, sometimes I'm more worried about sharing things to people I know than people I don't know. Like it's a lot easier to show it to strangers where it can feel a lot weirder when you're like at the grocery store and that lady you, that lives across the street, read your, do you know what I mean? That feels a little more like, ah. But so.

Alison Hatch (29:48.319)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (29:57.11)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, I do. I absolutely do, yeah.

rachel (30:04.058)

you are practicing it, that kind of sharing in a group that is smaller and is maybe separate from the rest of your life. And it might make you feel a little more liberated to try out what it feels like to speak certain truths.

Alison Hatch (30:22.846)

Yeah, absolutely. Like if you are feeling like you need to incorporate, like you know you need to be writing more for whatever reason, your business, your personal self, your creative practice, whatever, your, your class is definitely the place to start. It is a really great springboard for whatever needs to come next.

rachel (30:45.894)

You know, I had this thought as you were talking too about like how it can be intimidating if you don't feel like a writer. And there were people in that class who were there. Well, and also like people who were very confident writers and had, and like this was really something that they had done, but I want to, so to give you a little more of my background.

Alison Hatch (30:58.034)

Yeah, me.

rachel (31:08.658)

So I have this homeschooling background, but I was also a public school English teacher for eight years. So I'm like used to reading and responding to people's writing. But one of the things I love about a homeschooling model is that when, and I think like, this is kind of the Montessori model sometimes, but the idea that like everybody's not on the same level all the time. I don't love like

age segregation when kids are little. And I also don't love like skill segregation always, because I think that there's also so much learning that gets to happen when you have people like in various abilities coming together because, and it doesn't just mean that the people who are the most skilled and competent at something are just like carrying the weight. I also think of like people who maybe don't know how to do it. I think that they're also learning from them. You become more aware.

of your own writing and your own process and your own decisions and why you're doing things. Sometimes also when you're seeing people who aren't doing those things and you're thinking about them, that it can be like by reading that you notice like, oh, I think they could have kind of tweaked their parallel structure and am I doing that? Or you do you know what I mean? Like that there's this inner play that happens and I think that is a beautiful way to learn and to come together.

Alison Hatch (32:24.788)

Yeah.

rachel (32:34.278)

I felt like it was one of the things I loved about the class last year and I'm looking forward to again.

Alison Hatch (32:34.452)

Yeah, I-

Alison Hatch (32:38.418)

I did. So my perspective is a newbie and that's why I keep talking about it. But there were people in there who obviously were very well read and write often. And it was just so interesting to interact with them. Yeah. And if you, I just have my perspective, but yeah, I would assume that if you've been doing it, having just

rachel (32:47.674)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (33:07.286)

getting gaining a different point of view with your work no matter where you are in your journey of writing is helpful.

rachel (33:16.074)

which you know, that's my, I like bringing not completely homogenous groups together in an ideal world. So I like it when that happens and then the different things that you bring to it. Also I think sometimes, you know, it's that beginner's mindset can also be revelatory. I mean how many people do you know that to bring it back to photography, you'd like learn how to take kind of perfect pictures. And then you want to go back.

to like using disposable film cameras so that it's messy and has that wild raw quality. And sometimes as you're reading people's work who they haven't polished it so much, it reminds you of that energy and that zest that can come from writing that you're like, oh man, I've been editing that out of my work. Like how do I reconnect to that piece of it?

Alison Hatch (34:12.11)

That's awesome. Okay, so when does your next run of the workshop go?

rachel (34:13.78)

Alright.

rachel (34:17.454)

Oh, you've got me so excited thinking about it, Allison, because it's not for a little bit. The class doesn't start until March 4th, I believe is the first Monday in March. And then it runs for four weeks. The live portion of the class is on Tuesdays and Thursdays at noon Eastern. Those are all recorded. And based on feedback that somebody named Allison Hatch gonna change how you get the recordings, because you had said that it was like,

Alison Hatch (34:19.506)

Yeah, sure.

Alison Hatch (34:45.366)

Sorry, sorry it was challenging.

rachel (34:46.466)

Oh no! I loved that! I was like, oh at the end of every email I'm just gonna keep... they can all be there, the links in every single email so that like when I'm sending... anyhow. That's a boring technical piece but I wanna... I was like, Allison thanks for that! That was good! I can fix that!

Alison Hatch (35:01.45)

Yes, technology challenges to me is like, where are the recordings again? But I love that you're doing it in March. I feel like spring is, you know, such a great time to work on ourselves, expand ourselves and grow. Whatever little seed of that creative source is within you is ready to expand. Like March is such a great time to do it. I love you're doing it in March.

rachel (35:05.102)

Yeah.

rachel (35:24.474)

Now it feels really right to me because I think lots of us were kind of getting out of our slumber and I think even as people are signing up for it now it feels that like I'm ready to have something to be excited about and to look forward to and that often also depending on like what region you are in photograph I start to feel that photograph like that desire to create but sometimes in March the light still isn't great it's not that like it's still not that easy the circumstances but

Alison Hatch (35:27.381)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (35:34.946)

Mm-hmm.

rachel (35:54.27)

then getting to have something to start scratching that creative itch as you feel yourself kind of working out of the dirt, trying to bloom.

Alison Hatch (36:01.342)

Yeah, definitely, definitely. Okay, so we can sign up for the class now.

rachel (36:06.162)

Yep, you can sign up for the class now. I think based on when Alison said this is coming out, the early bird price, which saves $100, applies until January 29th. So if you're listening to this quickly, or like when it comes out, you still have time for the early bird price. Yeah.

Alison Hatch (36:18.31)

Oh yes, you'll have a week.

Alison Hatch (36:24.422)

a couple days actually. Yeah a couple days because it's going to come out. What's the date today? Anyway it's coming out soon. Anyway and then where else what else can people if they don't want to work with you with writing well how else can they work with you? You have so many different offers let's hear them real quick.

rachel (36:40.106)

If you are a photographer and you want to work in kind of a longer form format through mentorship, I offer an intimate mentorship experience where it's like four people and for four months and there's an in-person workshop in my hometown. So people are signing up for that summer round right now. And I also travel the US making pictures. And so if you...

are interested in working together. All of that's at Rach or Rachel.Larson.Weaver on Instagram. And then you can sign up for my weekly newsletter if you're so inclined. And you know, one of the things I like about newsletters too, it also kind of, it gives you a place, do you ever find this, that you'll read somebody's newsletter and then you kind of want to respond to it and that gives you your idea for your newsletter that like,

Alison Hatch (37:15.469)

Perfect.

Alison Hatch (37:20.831)

I love your newsletter.

Alison Hatch (37:32.128)

Yes!

Yeah.

rachel (37:35.322)

You just let it kind of be a conversation. So I think if you're a...

Alison Hatch (37:40.899)

It's interesting to see who responds and who doesn't respond to my newsletter. Yeah, it is. And those people usually have their own newsletter who are responding. Yeah.

rachel (37:50.858)

But I also think sometimes the response can be like, sometimes you might have said something and I might not respond directly almost, but then the idea is percolating and then it's like oops, three weeks later I didn't even realize, like I wrote my own newsletter in response to it because like that's how ideas work with us, right?

Alison Hatch (37:59.83)

Mm-hmm.

Alison Hatch (38:07.23)

No, seriously. Like, what comes to mind is that, so Rachel did my long form session with me and my boys here in New Mexico, which was amazing. And we talked about relationships. So I've been married for, oh my gosh, 24 years, oh, a long time. So, and that like, you know, we celebrate newness, marriage, and the beginnings of things instead of the relationships and it's involved, like how it evolves and grows and changes.

rachel (38:24.467)

Yeah.

Alison Hatch (38:37.01)

and morphs and you did a newsletter on it. Like, I don't know if you, yeah, like it just kept, that conversation just kept going. It was so awesome.

rachel (38:39.602)

Yeah. No, I mean also because

No, because like also because Alison and her partner are like such best friends and like they're so like, no, it's, it's inspiring and it's fun. You're like, what? How do we get more places for celebrating that? So yeah, and then you get to write about it and think about it later. And I feel like that's what I love about writing. It gives me this place to keep. I don't know.

Alison Hatch (38:51.558)

We are, it's ridiculous. We're disgusting.

Alison Hatch (39:02.701)

Yeah.

rachel (39:12.31)

make tangible all of these swirling thoughts and observations and things you want to celebrate and things you want to you're like oh i've got a container for that

Alison Hatch (39:21.482)

Yeah, exactly. Container like photography is like a piece we get to hold on to a little longer and writing is holding onto it and just Savoring it and letting it you know sit just a little bit longer on your palate. Yeah, I love it Well, thank you rachel so much for being on I love talking to you I wish you were closer so we could hang out more. Why do we have to live so freaking far away? Oh, yeah, I know you did like it You do

rachel (39:33.696)

Yeah. Thank you! I do too! I know, I want to be closer because I want to be in New Mexico more. I might like New Mexico more than you do.

Yeah!

Alison Hatch (39:50.318)

That's okay. I'm trying to love it. I am, I really am, but you did. You really liked it. So thank you so much for being on. I appreciate it. If you guys are listening to this, all the links will be in the show notes to Rachel's website and the words workshop and all the other fun things that you can work with Rachel in. And thank you so much for being on.

rachel (39:56.838)

Yeah.

rachel (40:10.398)

Thank you.

Alison Hatch (40:12.43)

I'm gonna end it and we just have to.

Is it Really a Failure? | You belong Podcast with Alison Hatch

After a four-month hiatus, Alison is back to talk about why she decided to cancel February's Photo Native. After stepping back from the Photo Native platform and everything that went with it, Alison is back to talk about failure and if Photo Native really was that. This episode of “Is It Really Failure?” Alison dives into why we feel like failure is bad when really it is inevitable. How we can easily change mindsets around failure in a culture that hides it? If you are feeling like you belong in the failure club, welcome. You’re not alone. So glad you are here and get listening.

Alison (00:01.858)

Okay, welcome back everybody. It has been a hot second since I have recorded a podcast and we are going to get deep into why, but I'm so glad you're here. First of all, thanks for coming back to me after a four month hiatus. It was a little longer than I expected it to be. And honestly, I didn't even know if I would be back. So I am just going to say thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here.

Um, so today we're going to be talking about failure and I feel like it is so incredibly appropriate and it was something that I knew would be my very first episode when I came back after this break because the reason why I took a break was because I had a failure and how many times can I say because in the sentence, okay. Um, if you've been around for a while, you know, that photo native was

something that I was working on. We had PhotoNative 2023 in Palm Springs. It was really fun, but it was financially a fail and I wanted to do it again. I took everything that I learned from the first one and changed things around, created a different conference with the same amount of value and experience and

everything that photo native is known for the attendees without it being such a financial strain on myself and Put it out there and Ticket sales were too low from the get-go and I just could not get myself to go through the stress of continually trying to market it and hope that People would buy tickets enough to again cover my costs. I could not take another loss and

The stress was too much, so I canceled. And I needed to take a massive, massive step back. So we're going to be talking about failure today. Failure, I feel like, is something that in our American culture, this entrepreneur success, success culture, failure isn't something that we're willing to talk about very much. And

Alison (02:19.718)

I feel like that is a huge detriment. When I decided to cancel Photo Native for 2024, the one that I created for February in 2024 in Texas, I was very honest about it. I completely was transparent as to why I went on Instagram. I wrote an email explaining everything and I felt like it was really important to explain that it was a failure.

we celebrate and only see our successes and we don't celebrate our failures. And I want to talk about why that is such a detriment to us, especially as entrepreneurs as running businesses. There's absolutely no way unless you are touched by the business gods that you do not have a failure as you are working your way in your business towards your goals. It's just a fact of

works out all the time, always. And I feel like we hide that, we hide those failures, we hide those things that don't turn out the way we planned or stumbling blocks, we hide it and only show our successes, our wins, everything's great, everything's awesome. And that's just not true. It's not fair, I think, to everyone out there, especially in a photography world, to show that all the time.

As artists, when we create art, it doesn't always work out that way, as well as our business. So let's talk about failure and how it's a good thing. How it's something that we should celebrate and share and expect and not get so upset by it. So first of all, I want to talk about two different types of failure. There's a soft fail and a hard fail. A soft fail is when you are consistently working towards a bigger goal, but have a stumbling walk along the way.

For instance, if you have a goal to increase clients by so much, so say for 2024, you want to have X amount of clients and you work towards it. So you have, you know, upping your SEO, your email, doing different analytics through all of those channels and marketing and you have this wonderful marketing plan and you execute it and you work towards this goal.

Alison (04:46.606)

towards 2024 X amount of clients, but the end of 2024 you haven't met that goal, it's a soft fail. There's no way you haven't increased your clients. There's no way you haven't learned from all of that. And there's no way that all of that work isn't going to continue rolling over into the next year and it compound. So that is a soft fail. A hard fail is when you try one time and you gave up.

Those can be the most painful because they come with really big feelings of regret. And that is what the problem is with failing is our feelings instead of looking at it as concrete evidence of what we need to change these feelings of shame and embarrassment and anger and sadness totally overtake us. We're all artists in this space and

For most of us, I'm going to say are pretty emotional people because of that. We have a lot of really big emotions and it can be really hard to process a fail because of that. So how do we overcome failure? There's a lot of ways to do it. The first one like I did is took a massive step back. I just knew that I needed to stop everything with photo native and take a step back, not work on it anymore.

and try to gain some perspective on the situation. And having no expectations, no pressures on me to do that and being so transparent with everybody and my clients, my employees, that that's what I was going to do, really helped me process those emotions and take a look at the bigger picture. So gaining some perspective. A quote about that is,

According to research, when people adopt a self-distancing perspective while discussing a difficult event, they make better sense of their reactions, experience less emotional distress, and display fewer physiological signs of stress. In the long term, they also experience reduced reactivity when remembering the same problematic event weeks or months later, and they are less vulnerable to recurring thought or rumination. So at first, when I...

Alison (07:07.77)

canceled photo native and started taking a step back anytime I caught brought up I cried or I got angry or I just got in this dark place and that happened for a while but as time went on I was able to Talk about it more and more without having those feelings and I think being able to give yourself that grace of saying hey I'm done For a while. Let's just take a break. Um

I think that is such the kindest, most gentlest thing you can do to yourself. If you don't have to continue, if you have that ability to stop and give yourself space, I think that is the best thing you absolutely can do for yourself the very beginning of your fail. The next thing is that practicing no list back up.

Alison (08:04.37)

Whether you take a break from it or not is allow yourself to be sad allow yourself to feel that Sadness or anger or shame or embarrassment or whatever you're feeling around your fail um Allowing yourself that Gives you that permission to feel those feelings and process it like I said before as artists Where most of us are very emotional people very empathic and have these you know, feelings is what helps us to create

wonderful art. So allowing yourself to feel that instead of just being the business person that you are giving yourself that space to feel those feelings and process them is also another wonderful thing you can do to process your fail. The next thing is practice self-compassion. So giving yourself that grace saying, okay, I'm having one of those days when I'm thinking about this and not getting mad at yourself for having those feelings and needing to take a step.

So how is failure good? I talked about failure being good and it really is so let's talk about why. Failure is learning from our mistakes and when you fail and you have all these feelings when you're ready to start tackling your fail and making it a positive thing the first thing you need to do is get honest about what was the motivating factor behind the failure.

Alison (09:31.398)

Okay, so I'm going to use photo native as an example. So my motivating factor behind the fail was the financial aspect of it. I didn't get into photo native because I wanted to make a ton of money. I mean, come on, everybody knows that photography, if you want to be rich, photography is a place to do it. But I did it because I wanted to continue that connection for other people to be able to have that same wonderful experience that I had.

and get those connections and connect with themselves as an artist and other people. That was the real reason why I did it. But I did want to at least make some money at it. I knew it would be a lot of work and I wanted to be compensated for my time, my value, my time, and I wanted to be able to do that. So I went too deep financially.

That was the wrong thing to do. I expected too much of myself. I, you know, had a little bit too big of goals and that motivation behind my fail was the financial aspect of it. And when I did have to cancel because of financial things, I was really upset at myself. I felt really down on myself. I felt like I was, you know, had all that shame and embarrassment instead of looking at the positive things that I gained from that.

experience. I met so many incredible people. I grew so much as an artist and as a person. I learned to put myself out there more. I learned so much about marketing and all these other things. There were so many benefiting factors from it and when I had processed those emotions and was able to go back at PhotoNative and look at the positive things, those are what has helped me continue to want to keep going with it.

and learn to look at it as a win. Yes, all the things that went wrong sucked, but I learned so much from it. And I'm going to be adapting to those things that I learned that went wrong. And then the things that were positive from it, I want to just keep bringing with me, keep bringing with me and continuing it through to whatever photo native will be in the future. So recognizing those successes.

Alison (11:55.474)

Recognizing that even yes, it didn't turn out exactly like you were expecting it to But there were some wonderful things about it or learning experiences from it And this growth that you can gain from failure Is so big um, the other thing I think is really important to learn from a fail is that You're okay That you actually tried. Um I have a

So you actually tried, which is amazing.

Alison (00:10.998)

Okay, there we go. Being able to have the guts to try something so big or outside of your comfort level is amazing. And being able to do that means that you might have a chance of failing. And what an incredible place to be of excitement and fear, but it's growth. You're not gonna be able to gain that growth that you want with

out having the option that it'll fail. So if you're scared of failure, then you're not going to gain these goals. You're not going to be able to grow like you need to or want to. You have to be able to be okay with the possibility of it failing. So pat yourself on the back that you even tried. Seriously, like you have to be so proud of yourself for trying even though it didn't work out the way that you wanted.

And the last thing I wanted to go over real quick is stop comparing yourself to others. It looks like so many people are doing so well out there that they're just killing it with all these different things. And you're over here going, it's not working out for me. Why isn't it working out for me? And you got to stop. You've got to just stop comparing yourself to other people. It isn't fair. The only person that comparison is hurting is you. It's not hurting anybody else out there who looks like they're doing

amazing. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't and they're just faking it till they make it as well. You've got to stop doing it because it's only gonna hurt you. So how do you feel about failure now? After I've talked about it and gone over all the things in my own personal failures, I would love to hear your response to failure. If you are liking this episode, please share it. Share it in your stories or

Share it in your email lists. I would love for this to continue to get out The other thing is if you would like to be a guest on the you belong podcast You can go to the my website and there's a link in Instagram or you can go to the photo native dot -com backslash you belong and It'll get you there so you can apply to be a guest on the episode. Thanks everybody. I'm so glad you're back here with me after my perspective break with

Alison (02:37.538)

VOTO native and being able to process my fill and I am happy to share it with you. Alright everyone, bye.

Alison is an Albuquerque, NM analog film photographer and photography educator. Her work has been featured in many online publications such as Shoot It With Film and Heartful Magazine, many social media features, and published works like The Front Steps Project Book. You can here
Alison talk about creativity, photography, and the power of the feminine on her weekly podcast You Belong.